Health results (also DM!!) in the Wolfdog.org database

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by Admin

OFFA tested about 20.000 dogs - there was not even ONE muttation. It is why they give certificates for the puppies that they are "free" when the parents are tested and free.

It is made by the most known laboratory. Believe me - they would not make it of they will have ANY doubts that it is ok.

I wouldn´t dare to doubt that a huge laboratory can handle their results in that way. But this is not OFFA - so the results you receive have been archieved by many laboratories, they submitt the results to the owner, who then decides if they are published here, right? So there are officially recognized laboratories for testing DM and Dwarfism - and there are others. Although in this data base the results of both are published, they are marked as inofficial, when the laboratory is not recognized for DM and Dwarfism testing.
Nevertheless, they are taken for granted when someone assumes the genetic disposition of their parents and their puppies.

IF you really want to draw conclusions from results, shouldn´t you conclude from official results only?

I think it gets al little ... confusing for interested people - or do we now have four categories:
1) Tested by recognized laboratory,
2) assumption due to parents/puppies Test of recognized laboratory,
3) tested but not officially recognized,
4) assumption due to parents/puppies Test of NON-recognized laboratory?

What will happen, when I get a result for my dog - and it does not fit into the assumption of the "results" of its parents? Will there be doubt about my dogs results (lets say they are from a recognized laboratory) or will the doubt affect the parents and the parent-ship? Do I then have to take a parentage test - or does the breeder have to do it?

Does this lead to genetic "fingerprint" of all dogs to proof their pedigree?
(I don´t think that´s bad BUT ...)

[admin]

Originally Posted by koboldine

they submitt the results to the owner, who then decides if they are published here, right?

NO - OFFA publish EVERYTHING on their website. Nothing is hidden. It is the difference between OFFA and other "European" laboratories who ALLOW to hide the results.

But I'm sure the publishing of the information like we do know do not make some breeders happy and it will cause huge resistance. It is known that the breeders who breed will DM/DM dogs and do not make any selection hide the results of their dogs. And they are big opponents of publishing the DM-results of the parents basing on the results of the puppies.
But the question is if we will help the dishonest and unreliable breeders OR
if we help to improve the breed and the honest breeders. For me the answer is very easy...

IF you really want to draw conclusions from results, shouldn´t you conclude from official results only?

But it is what we do!

I think it gets al little ... confusing for interested people - or do we now have four categories:
1) Tested by recognized laboratory,
2) assumption due to parents/puppies Test of recognized laboratory,
3) tested but not officially recognized,
4) assumption due to parents/puppies Test of NON-recognized laboratory?

No - only two. Official - with written name of the laboratory which made the test. And unofficial.

What will happen, when I get a result for my dog - and it does not fit into the assumption of the "results" of its parents? Will there be doubt about my dogs results (lets say they are from a recognized laboratory) or will the doubt affect the parents and the parent-ship? Do I then have to take a parentage test - or does the breeder have to do it?

You must clear it with you breeder or without him. There are two possibilities if the results do not match - the parentage is wrong: thge parents of your puppy are different than written in the pedigree. OR: the DM test (of the puppy or (of one) of the parents) is wrong. I can not say you who must make what. But there will be a mistake.

It is exactly why some breeders which were mentioned on the forum for cheating the pedigrees do not want to make the DM test - exactly because they can give the prove that they cheated the pedigrees...

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Admin

NO - OFFA publish EVERYTHING on their website. Nothing is hidden. It is the difference between OFFA and other "European" laboratories who ALLOW to hide the results.

No, this isn't totally true. All NORMAL results are published on the OFFA website with or without permission, and it is their recommendation that all results are published to help with knowledge and selection...but owners must still agree to have abnormal results published - they may agree before or after the dog is tested. All dogs are part of the anonymous statistics section for the breed. Our database for PennHip is still dealing with legal privacy issues to be able to become public and published - you must also agree to be part of the database for that registry.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

No, this isn't totally true. All NORMAL results are published on the OFFA website with or without permission, and it is their recommendation that all results are published to help with knowledge and selection...but owners must still agree to have abnormal results published - they may agree before or after the dog is tested.

Thanks for clarifying Marcy! I hope more people will realise now that not all results are visible.

European labs would get huge problems when they would publish test results (or share them with others besides the owner) In the past some did, but they did receive complains of breeders, so they did stop with this.

Now it is sometimes only possible for clubs to ask for percentages (without names).
But also this says NOTHING! Because owners make the tests in several labs in Europe and not in the same lab.

It is a pity that it did not work out in the past to cooperate with several countries to start together a DNA database for CsW’s. Now the test results and DNA storage of CsW’s is spread in all kind of labs.

Originally Posted by Admin

There is a project running on the university in Prague who is checking the DM by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All you have to do is to send the blood of your dog (EDTA) OR the swabs with DNA material taken from the inner cheek. ….
………. Especially thanks to this project there is a HUGE improvement if it comes to the DM testing and the possiblity to make DM selection by our breed.

Hmmmm…… Are you sure the rules did change????

In the past I did want to cooperate….. (I even did send DNA of a DM/N and a DM/DM dog for their research)
And I also did ask if CsW’s from Holland and Belgium could be tested… (then we would have at least one lab with a lot of CsW DNA)

But in that time I did receive as answer: That this project was only for CSW from the Czech Republic and only a very limited number of dogs of their neighboring countries………

[admin]

Originally Posted by mijke

European labs would get huge problems when they would publish test results (or share them with others besides the owner) In the past some did, but they did receive complains of breeders, so they did stop with this.

Now it is sometimes only possible for clubs to ask for percentages (without names).
But also this says NOTHING! Because owners make the tests in several labs in Europe and not in the same lab.

That's the point - there will be always honest breeders who will publish the results. And there will be always breeders hiding them. There are also CHEATERS who know that their dogs are ill but they tell the puppy owners that their dogs are healthy - the database with unofficial result can prevent it.

Additionally:
Publishing DM information do not "hurt" anyone - even the DM/DM dogs can be used for breeding - only the selection is important: not to mate such dogs with carriers but only with N/N dogs. The same apply to the carriers.

Publishing unofficial information can show possible dangers and can prevent that more DM/DM dogs are born. It is why I do not understand why some people are against it...