British Kennel Club Recognition

[GalomyOak]

In the beginning of our club, we created a "Code of Ethics" and also a set of club bylaws. These can be used to oust people from the club (they were both finalized about a month ago, so we haven't had to enforce them yet). Although we haven't had the problem of mix-breeding here (well, maybe some Tamasken "variation" people, but they have no interest in our club or breed), we have had some other issues...but everyone is given a clean slate at this point, since there were no legally binding club documents prior to ours for the breed. If anyone messes up now, and we are aware of it, they will have their membership terminated...though unfortunately, this has no effect on their relationship with AKC.

At our core we have a board of 5 members who make decisions on voting people out, and takes on judicial duty if people violate the code of ethics or bylaws. We also have different types of membership - full voting rights are only given to adult CSV owners residing in the US, but non-owners as well as owners/non-owners can have non-voting membership and be fully involved with club activities. We plan to have a health testing scheme as part of our code of ethics, as well as a mandate on no cross-breeding. Maybe it is worth it for your club to look to other clubs (as we did!) - both CSV clubs in other countries, as well as "successful" (in terms of ethics and health) parent breed clubs within the UK. I would think the KC might be of some use also once they realize that there are serious people who are in things for the right reasons.

Here are links to our club documents, if they might be of some help:
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/codeofethics.html
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/...nstitution.pdf

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

In the beginning of our club, we created a "Code of Ethics" and also a set of club bylaws. These can be used to oust people from the club (they were both finalized about a month ago, so we haven't had to enforce them yet). Although we haven't had the problem of mix-breeding here (well, maybe some Tamasken "variation" people, but they have no interest in our club or breed), we have had some other issues...but everyone is given a clean slate at this point, since there were no legally binding club documents prior to ours for the breed. If anyone messes up now, and we are aware of it, they will have their membership terminated...though unfortunately, this has no effect on their relationship with AKC.

At our core we have a board of 5 members who make decisions on voting people out, and takes on judicial duty if people violate the code of ethics or bylaws. We also have different types of membership - full voting rights are only given to adult CSV owners residing in the US, but non-owners as well as owners/non-owners can have non-voting membership and be fully involved with club activities. We plan to have a health testing scheme as part of our code of ethics, as well as a mandate on no cross-breeding. Maybe it is worth it for your club to look to other clubs (as we did!) - both CSV clubs in other countries, as well as "successful" (in terms of ethics and health) parent breed clubs within the UK. I would think the KC might be of some use also once they realize that there are serious people who are in things for the right reasons.

Here are links to our club documents, if they might be of some help:
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/codeofethics.html
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/...nstitution.pdf

Thanks for that info.

I know that the beauceron breeders/owners/enthusiasts in the uk have only had their breed club up and running a year or 2. Perhaps they would be good people to contact for more info/advice on the process?


Taz

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

In the beginning of our club, we created a "Code of Ethics" and also a set of club bylaws. These can be used to oust people from the club (they were both finalized about a month ago, so we haven't had to enforce them yet). Although we haven't had the problem of mix-breeding here (well, maybe some Tamasken "variation" people, but they have no interest in our club or breed), we have had some other issues...but everyone is given a clean slate at this point, since there were no legally binding club documents prior to ours for the breed. If anyone messes up now, and we are aware of it, they will have their membership terminated...though unfortunately, this has no effect on their relationship with AKC.

At our core we have a board of 5 members who make decisions on voting people out, and takes on judicial duty if people violate the code of ethics or bylaws. We also have different types of membership - full voting rights are only given to adult CSV owners residing in the US, but non-owners as well as owners/non-owners can have non-voting membership and be fully involved with club activities. We plan to have a health testing scheme as part of our code of ethics, as well as a mandate on no cross-breeding. Maybe it is worth it for your club to look to other clubs (as we did!) - both CSV clubs in other countries, as well as "successful" (in terms of ethics and health) parent breed clubs within the UK. I would think the KC might be of some use also once they realize that there are serious people who are in things for the right reasons.

Here are links to our club documents, if they might be of some help:
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/codeofethics.html
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/...nstitution.pdf

Thank you very much for your valuable advice. In fact, the club should have some internal rules. I also had a similar idea with five members constituting the core of the club, or "council". Definitely there is no reason reinvent the wheel again, the organization of the club can be ‘borrowed’ from others. In any case, we don’t need to hurry. I personally believe that if the CSV is to become a proper breed in the UK, it can happen only on the basis of new dogs from Europe, with FCI pedigrees. And we would have to wait a bit to appear more of them in this country. Then you have to wait even more if someone would start to breed. Like Rona said, a minimum of 2-3 years. And I also think this is a long term operation.

Regarding the club, in my opinion, such club's tasks would include close cooperation with breeders and clubs from Europe, as well as the community of this forum. We will not get very far without the cooperation with European breeders. We need to rebuild their trust. And I don’t know how we could regain that, if the club would promoted the further mating males and females from kennels before classified by them as "uncertain". I know that because of these words I will be very disliked by many of the owners / breeders in the UK, and I apologize for that, but just as I found it too risky to buy a puppy from one of the breeders in this country, same (if I would ever to be a breeder) I would consider risky mating my CSV with another SCV coming from one of these breeders. Many may simply be unaware of it, are sure their CSV is pure just because their breeder said so. For the same reasons I would hold back from breeding with the dogs in pedigree of which is Crying Wolf or de louba Tar. I do not know too much about the problems with these kennels, but such problems exist, so why unnecessarily risk, when this can be easily avoided. Perhaps there could be performed some sort of test (DNA?)in both cases? And dogs that would passed, could be considered "breedable" again. Then it would be possible to ask administrators of this forum to change a breeding status of such dog in database. Unfortunately, I think that rules should be very strict and rigorous, mainly because of the past, and I would think so on even if I was the owner of one of the dogs from British kennels.

Also, I do not know how the breeders from Europe could to "unban" UK, while in the British club forum would be the same man who was one of the reasons for banning UK in first place.

I would like to stress once again that these are just my personal thoughts based on my current understanding of the topic. Hope that I managed to explain myself clearly regardless of my poor english.
Now you can throw the stones

[tupacs2legs]

......club aside,

i have no reason to doubt my dog is a csv just because he doesnt have an fci piece of paper,as far as i am aware there is one dog of 'de loubar tar' in his pedigree and he has not been marked as a suspect(correct me if i am wrong )

i have met both my dogs parents,and even though my breeder breeds mixes she has always been open an honest about what she does and not been secretive about it in anyway,(and that is not meant to be an excuse for crossing ,just fact)in all the years she has owned/bred her csv's ,Tupac was from only her 2nd pure litter!(she has only had 4 i believe)i had known her from before(a few years) regarding a long story about a 'rescue' (not wolfdog)and the trust i have in her started then,as she was the only one that told the truth in the matter and actually helped!

i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though

i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong.

now go on...throw the stones at me

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

...i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though

i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong.

now go on...throw the stones at me

I wont. I know it is unfair. I feel really bad to even think the way I have described . I believe you are right. But no other way to separate CSV from crosses comes to my mind. And whoever will be trying to establish this breed in this country, and will have purity of breed in mind, will have to do it somehow. This is really tough... Maybe other people will have other ideas.

P.S. Rona was right, that really looks similar to situation in Poland when Solidarnosc took over communists.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by hedeon

P.S. Rona was right, that really looks similar to situation in Poland when Solidarnosc took over communists.

Especially, there were also some "good" communists and quite a few very corrupted anti-communists...

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Rona

Especially, there were also some "good" communists and quite a few very corrupted anti-communists...

Exactly....

[GalomyOak]

It's a shame that the original dogs that were imported from mainland Europe were not DNA profiled (I think at least one has passed away?). In that way, you could collect DNA back to the original dogs. I have encouraged AKC to put a mandate on AKC profiling all CSVs that are bred. Currently, it must only be done for dogs that are imported, multiple-sire, or AI. I would like to see the same for all natural coverings of domestically bred dogs as well.

It has taken about 3 years to get to the stage that we are at in the US (26 club households, 3 registered litters on the ground, acceptance by AKC as an official club this past month). We had our first "meeting" (more of a meet-up) in 2008, but most of those owners weren't too interested in being very involved with a club, and are not currently involved with our club (one owner has passed away). I think you will find this as well - many owners are happy to be just that, and choose not to be actively involved with a club, for a variety of reasons. It seems to be the breeders (with varying motives) and the "die-hards" who are the driving (and shaping) forces. Dialogue is the key element initially - a strong set of leaders is great to build knowledge, redirect/resolve disagreements, and to help people find their niche in the club. We are hopeful that we will have an "official" meeting (as well as a breed specialty show perhaps!) in 2012.