Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!

michaelundinaeichhorn · 09-01-2010, 09:42

DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

Vaiva · 09-01-2010, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

Sorry if my questions sound stupidly, but I really do not understand anything about the way these tests are done. A lab in Lithuania, making DNA tests for people and dogs (for dogs only to check if the parents are the same as written in pedigrees

) says, that they have a possibility to make any tests, they just need to buy the samples

So I could ask them about the possibility to make the tests in Lithuania - maybe that would be cheaper? I just need to know if the same test suits for, let's say, GSD

Could anyone be so kind and explain this more clearly?

michaelundinaeichhorn · 09-01-2010, 10:22

To do a test you have to know exactly what gene causes the disease, so first you start with finding out if a disease is inherited and which way is likely (recessiv, dominant, autosomal, etc) than you need to find out which mutation of a gene ore genes (more often and much more complicated) causes it. For that you need a group of dogs with this disease. Then you build up a test for marking this mutation, then you verify the test for the breed you worked with (look if it really shows all carriers and ill dogs), the you make the next step to find out of the same disease is caused by the same mutation in different breeds (what is very often not the case!) and verify it for different breeds. This takes very often years.

You are carfull in publishing during this period because very often there are different groups working on one problem and who is succesfull first earns the money and the fame.

jmvdwiel · 09-01-2010, 10:26

I don't think the test is being sold yet

, the university did put a lot of energy and money in it to develop the test. And of course they have to get some money back before they wil sell the test.
The test was very hard to develop because the dwarf-allele where hard to find in the DNA.

But maybe.. if you can get lots of samples (about 50 or so) maybe they are willing to give you some discount.
In Holland we managed to get 7 samples at the clubmatch, so I think it would be possible for other countries to get more samples. Maybe you can find a veterinarian that want to draw some blood for free as a hobby

(just like we did in Holland)
Maybe it is possible to fundraise some money especially for the dwarf test, and what you can do is only testing the new parents of litters and ask a little bit more for the puppies.
Ans as Maike says probably you wil end with more alive puppies in a litter and only if you have 1 pup more in a litter you wil have your money back from the test.

mijke · 09-01-2010, 16:10

Thanks Ina and Judith for explanation!

The university is working on the specific scientific report that will be published. When it is published they will also sell the test to a commercial laboratory.

In the mean time they did not want to lose time for breeds that they can test now (GSD, SWH and CsW) So besides their other work they make the test .

I don't know if they have possibility (time) to test a very big group and give discount.
But I already did ask them to think about this.

And they did promise me to think and speak about this.
Next week I hope to receive their answer.

canislupus · 10-01-2010, 17:33

Hello,

I will test my two dogs as well, so we can start counting with them...

Tanja

Vaiva · 11-01-2010, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

Thanks Ina and Judith for explanation!

The university is working on the specific scientific report that will be published. When it is published they will also sell the test to a commercial laboratory.

In the mean time they did not want to lose time for breeds that they can test now (GSD, SWH and CsW) So besides their other work they make the test .

I don't know if they have possibility (time) to test a very big group and give discount.
But I already did ask them to think about this.

And they did promise me to think and speak about this.
Next week I hope to receive their answer.

I also sent a request to the lab in LT, you know, just in case

If this test also "works" for GSD, that makes more possibilities to make it also here.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 11-01-2010, 18:39

Ask for all tests they offer it is quite likely they are a little bit cheaper. It doesn´t matter where the lab is as long as the tests are done properly.

Vaiva · 11-01-2010, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Ask for all tests they offer it is quite likely they are a little bit cheaper. It doesn´t matter where the lab is as long as the tests are done properly.

They say they could make any tests, that have demand. If a certain number of interested people is collected, thay are ready to buy the patents needed. It is a pitty, but at the moment it seems like only paternity tests are interesting to dog owners in Lithuania.
If I knew the certain names of tests, interesting to our breeed, I could send them a request.

09-01-2010, 10:26	#4
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	I don't think the test is being sold yet , the university did put a lot of energy and money in it to develop the test. And of course they have to get some money back before they wil sell the test. The test was very hard to develop because the dwarf-allele where hard to find in the DNA. But maybe.. if you can get lots of samples (about 50 or so) maybe they are willing to give you some discount. In Holland we managed to get 7 samples at the clubmatch, so I think it would be possible for other countries to get more samples. Maybe you can find a veterinarian that want to draw some blood for free as a hobby (just like we did in Holland) Maybe it is possible to fundraise some money especially for the dwarf test, and what you can do is only testing the new parents of litters and ask a little bit more for the puppies. Ans as Maike says probably you wil end with more alive puppies in a litter and only if you have 1 pup more in a litter you wil have your money back from the test. Last edited by jmvdwiel; 09-01-2010 at 11:02.

09-01-2010, 16:10	#5
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Thanks Ina and Judith for explanation! The university is working on the specific scientific report that will be published. When it is published they will also sell the test to a commercial laboratory. In the mean time they did not want to lose time for breeds that they can test now (GSD, SWH and CsW) So besides their other work they make the test . I don't know if they have possibility (time) to test a very big group and give discount. But I already did ask them to think about this. And they did promise me to think and speak about this. Next week I hope to receive their answer. __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

10-01-2010, 17:33	#6
canislupus Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 33165 Ebbinghausen/Paderborn Posts: 400	Hello, I will test my two dogs as well, so we can start counting with them... Tanja __________________ Alles wird gut! http://www.mala-bosorka.de

09-01-2010, 09:42	#1
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests. But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time. This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether. Ina

09-01-2010, 10:22	#3
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	To do a test you have to know exactly what gene causes the disease, so first you start with finding out if a disease is inherited and which way is likely (recessiv, dominant, autosomal, etc) than you need to find out which mutation of a gene ore genes (more often and much more complicated) causes it. For that you need a group of dogs with this disease. Then you build up a test for marking this mutation, then you verify the test for the breed you worked with (look if it really shows all carriers and ill dogs), the you make the next step to find out of the same disease is caused by the same mutation in different breeds (what is very often not the case!) and verify it for different breeds. This takes very often years. You are carfull in publishing during this period because very often there are different groups working on one problem and who is succesfull first earns the money and the fame.

11-01-2010, 18:39	#8
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Ask for all tests they offer it is quite likely they are a little bit cheaper. It doesn´t matter where the lab is as long as the tests are done properly.