4 wolves used in breed development

yukidomari · 11-11-2010, 02:45

Is there any information on Sarik, Brita, Argo and Lejdy? I'm curious about how and why they were selected and where they were selected from (zoo? private sanctuary?)

And I'd like to know if it is common for wolf to dog pairings to have low fertility especially if it is a male wolf to female dog. For example, in the two litters from Sarik, there was only 1 puppy produced each. Only 2 puppies were produced from Argo's single litter, and only 1 puppy from Lejdy's single litter. The only exception is Brita who had 2 sizable litters.

Was there any reason for the selection of these 4 specific wolves, or was it "just because" they were Eurasian wolves?

Priska182 · 11-11-2010, 03:28

Really interesting questions

buidelwolf · 12-11-2010, 01:15

Quote:

And I'd like to know if it is common for wolf to dog pairings to have low fertility especially if it is a male wolf to female dog. For example, in the two litters from Sarik, there was only 1 puppy produced each. Only 2 puppies were produced from Argo's single litter, and only 1 puppy from Lejdy's single litter. The only exception is Brita who had 2 sizable litters.

I assume that the actual litter sizes were much larger than officially documented. Especially in those days it was common practice to select rigorously; keeping the best puppy(s) and "simply" euthanise the rest.For example those who proved to be too shy. I'm not sure about it, but I do think it is likely that's the reason why we only see one or two F1 pups with some of the wolf crossings. Also just because a wolf crossing usually results in large litters (fresh blood). I seem to recall having read about it here on the forum or perhaps in the book by Karl Hartl. Possibly some forum users from the countries of origin can tell more about it?

yukidomari · 12-11-2010, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by buidelwolf

I assume that the actual litter sizes were much larger than officially documented. Especially in those days it was common practice to select rigorously; keeping the best puppy(s) and "simply" euthanise the rest.

Hmmm.. I wonder if this is the case. It would make sense, certainly. If anyone has read Hartl's book, does it elaborate on this?

Priska182 · 12-11-2010, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by buidelwolf

I assume that the actual litter sizes were much larger than officially documented. Especially in those days it was common practice to select rigorously; keeping the best puppy(s) and "simply" euthanise the rest.For example those who proved to be too shy. I'm not sure about it, but I do think it is likely that's the reason why we only see one or two F1 pups with the wolf crossings.

I don't think so... Because in 1958 Brita gave birth to 5 pups but only Betsy and Bessy has been reproduce. And in 1960 same thing, 5 pups but only Bikar has been reproduce...
In the Book they don't really talk about it... We only know that some dogs had better capacity to be train and were more predisposed for the project of a new breed...

michaelundinaeichhorn · 12-11-2010, 02:07

The military did the first character-test with 8 weeks and every pup not fulfilling them was put down. This continued till adult age.
Also that Major Rosik writes that they rescued some few dogs after the military decided not to use them any longer means exacly this, they were rescued.

Ina

buidelwolf · 12-11-2010, 02:09

Thanks Ina, I knew you should know. It confirms almost certainly the theory I had. Do you also have information about the other questions?

michaelundinaeichhorn · 12-11-2010, 02:55

No not really, to be honest I never bothered. But having raised wolves and having talked about this during the Mutara times and before with Erik Zimen who did the same bilogical experiment with poodles and dogs, I think they took these wolves because they simply have been available for them .It is not that easy to mate a wolf and a dog that have not been raised together as it is with two dogs. So I think, like with the Mutara´s parents, they just happend to be there in this combinations.

Ina

11-11-2010, 02:45	#1
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	4 wolves used in breed development Is there any information on Sarik, Brita, Argo and Lejdy? I'm curious about how and why they were selected and where they were selected from (zoo? private sanctuary?) And I'd like to know if it is common for wolf to dog pairings to have low fertility especially if it is a male wolf to female dog. For example, in the two litters from Sarik, there was only 1 puppy produced each. Only 2 puppies were produced from Argo's single litter, and only 1 puppy from Lejdy's single litter. The only exception is Brita who had 2 sizable litters. Was there any reason for the selection of these 4 specific wolves, or was it "just because" they were Eurasian wolves?

11-11-2010, 03:28	#2
Priska182 Canadian Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Montréal Posts: 423	Really interesting questions __________________ Stéphanie www.inugami.ca

12-11-2010, 02:09	#7
buidelwolf senior member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 163	Thanks Ina, I knew you should know. It confirms almost certainly the theory I had. Do you also have information about the other questions? Last edited by buidelwolf; 12-11-2010 at 02:24.

12-11-2010, 02:07	#6
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	The military did the first character-test with 8 weeks and every pup not fulfilling them was put down. This continued till adult age. Also that Major Rosik writes that they rescued some few dogs after the military decided not to use them any longer means exacly this, they were rescued. Ina

12-11-2010, 02:55	#8
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	No not really, to be honest I never bothered. But having raised wolves and having talked about this during the Mutara times and before with Erik Zimen who did the same bilogical experiment with poodles and dogs, I think they took these wolves because they simply have been available for them .It is not that easy to mate a wolf and a dog that have not been raised together as it is with two dogs. So I think, like with the Mutara´s parents, they just happend to be there in this combinations. Ina