Free advertisement for breeders

[Wolfsirius]

"1) Breeders involved in breeding of mixes will disappear from breeders' listings and their litter advertisements will be removed.

2) There will be also no contact information to the breeder in the database "

Many people noticed that there had been missing many breeders
from different countries since a while.
I think they all have nothing to do with mutara, why had been they taking off?

Thanks;
-Suski

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

Many people noticed that there had been missing many breeders
from different countries since a while.
I think they all have nothing to do with mutara, why had been they taking off?

There can be two reasons:

1) The database shows only "active" breeders - breeders which own females with breeding rights. So all breeders which own only males of their females are too young or too old to reproduce has been taken AUTOMATICALLY off.
If someone is active breeders and still is not on this list he must contact us so we can check it...

2) All breeders who advertise on Wolfdog.org but do not fulfilled the 'Conditions for publishing litter announcements' has been also removed:

7. As the time goes or at the latest after puppies' pickup you are obliged to send us information about puppies (birtday date, names, registration numbers, tatoo/chip numbers, names of new owners and if it's also possible their contact addresses, phone numbers and emails) to our email address [email protected].

8. Free-of-charge advertisements base on reciprocal benefits - You get a chance to announce your litter effectively and for free and we receive from you the information about puppies and owners as a "payback". Until you don't fulfill the conditions described in paragraph 7) you will not be able to place more advertisements. Resending of the overdue information to us will result in your future advertisements being published again.

I have enough of spending time to get in contact with breeders, asking them for months to send us info about their litters. By some breeders the info from 2005 and 2006 is still missing. They need weeks to answer me but when they cover their females they are quick as lightning with publishing the ads and sending the info...
I have enough of spending the time to get in contact with breeders which "forget" to understand english but can speak perfectly when the buyers contact them....

So we decided to stops it - so most of such unhonest breeders has been removed.

In the new database we will already care for it - by every not listed breeder the status will be show. We will write there if the breeder is not listed because he didn't sent us the info, because he has not "active" kennel or... because he is breeding mixes...
So people which are listed wrongly and removed by accident can speak about it with us...

[Wolfsirius]

"names of new owners and if it's also possible their contact addresses, phone numbers and emails)"

Example in Finland this is illegal.
Without new owners permission. Even Finnish kennelclub can't give owners info to ANYBODY. I know it cause we tried get contacts of owners cause planned big meeting.

-Suski

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

Example in Finland this is illegal.

Not only in Finland. It is the same in the European Union... It is regulated by the law for the Protection of Personal Data. But not all data is "personal" and some information can be added without any problems. It is also possible to tell the owners to restester here and send their data...
Anyway we will write more about it in the new Wolfdog.org so everyone can handle according to our rules but also to the offical law....

But usually there is missing info about the dogs.... and it is has nothing to do with Personal Data....

[Wolfsirius]

That is true.

I forgot. There is always possibility to make DNA test.
Our CsV,s in Finland is tested. So is there any idea to put also that info to every dog which have DNA test?
There must be DNA tested dogs more than ours.

-Suski

[*Satu]

Originally Posted by Margo

1) The database shows only "active" breeders - breeders which own females with breeding rights. So all breeders which own only males of their females are too young or too old to reproduce has been taken AUTOMATICALLY off.
If someone is active breeders and still is not on this list he must contact us so we can check it...

Why? Because breeder is more than "puppyfactory". Yes I don´t have any Csv litters but I´m FCI breeder and I work everyday for our breed. In country like Finland it´s not sense to make puppies every year but still we have csv and maybe we have puppies someday again.
If someone wants to know something about to breed how can take contact in own country?

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

I forgot. There is always possibility to make DNA test.
Our CsV,s in Finland is tested. So is there any idea to put also that info to every dog which have DNA test?
There must be DNA tested dogs more than ours.

It is not missing but at this time not appearing... We have there place for DNA testing but it will appear first when Przemek makes new database...

Anyway there is much more info in the database as the user can see online.... some of the data will be shown when the new database is online.. the rest will be colected but hidden because óf some reasons...

Originally Posted by *Satu

Why? Because breeder is more than "puppyfactory". Yes I don´t have any Csv litters but I´m FCI breeder and I work everyday for our breed.

No, no... I meant something else... "Active" breeder is not someone who is producing puppies but someone who HAVE such possibility. So you are "active" breeder even if do not breed at the moment...

So active breeder is someone who has registered kennel name and owns a bitch with breeding right. It doesn't matter if the breeder has litters...

[*Satu]

Thanks. When we have that new database?

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Margo

There can be two reasons:

1) The database shows only "active" breeders - breeders which own females with breeding rights. So all breeders which own only males of their females are too young or too old to reproduce has been taken AUTOMATICALLY off.
If someone is active breeders and still is not on this list he must contact us so we can check it...

2) All breeders who advertise on Wolfdog.org but do not fulfilled the 'Conditions for publishing litter announcements' has been also removed:

7. As the time goes or at the latest after puppies' pickup you are obliged to send us information about puppies (birtday date, names, registration numbers, tatoo/chip numbers, names of new owners and if it's also possible their contact addresses, phone numbers and emails) to our email address [email protected].

8. Free-of-charge advertisements base on reciprocal benefits - You get a chance to announce your litter effectively and for free and we receive from you the information about puppies and owners as a "payback". Until you don't fulfill the conditions described in paragraph 7) you will not be able to place more advertisements. Resending of the overdue information to us will result in your future advertisements being published again.

I have enough of spending time to get in contact with breeders, asking them for months to send us info about their litters. By some breeders the info from 2005 and 2006 is still missing. They need weeks to answer me but when they cover their females they are quick as lightning with publishing the ads and sending the info...
I have enough of spending the time to get in contact with breeders which "forget" to understand english but can speak perfectly when the buyers contact them....

So we decided to stops it - so most of such unhonest breeders has been removed.

In the new database we will already care for it - by every not listed breeder the status will be show. We will write there if the breeder is not listed because he didn't sent us the info, because he has not "active" kennel or... because he is breeding mixes...
So people which are listed wrongly and removed by accident can speak about it with us...

I have been removed, no I did not tell the data base I was due a litter but then I did not know I had to , but I did send all my puppies names to data base and i sent numerous photos none have yet appeared I also sent photos of my wolf they have not appeared,I have sent numerous email asking why I the only uk breeder has been removed and you had not even the decency to reply to any of my mails, i sent information on one new owner, this week two pups leave for Spain and I will update the info, I choose my homes very carefully even if it takes 6mths like with this litter, I have had lots of mails from people in Europe and uk asking why i have been removed, so I now ask on this web site for all to see WHY HAVE I BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DREEDERS LISTINGS??? please reply on the site so everyone can know why, regards paul and mandy winder czechoslovakian wolfdog club u,k, still fighting for over 6 yrs to get this breed recognised in the u.k

[Huan]

As far as I know you are not on the list because as Margo wrote there are only "active" breeders published and according to the database (at least to the old one because new one is not published yet) you do not have a breeding female. Maybe in the new database there are other information but we can't update database now because it does have different structure and first the software has to be ready

[Wolfsirius]

Just came in my mind as i thought (read) what Margo said.
If there is listed only active breeders (breeders who have female in age that could make puppies)
is there any idea to think about that list all "true" BREEDERS instead of all owners of female in breeding age? With "true" i mean breeders who have registered breedingname, and had have (Csv) puppies.

I think is so, that you are breeder, even you dont have puppies every year, your breeding name is not missing,
and your breeding not end, before you say so yourself.

Example; If you have a female in age of 4 years, you make puppies with it, then you waite 2 years to see how puppies will be, and maybe buy a new female (puppy) so you must waite at least 2 years to make puppies again, so can take 4 years after somebody have puppies again, and still, it can be very active with breed (in own country) and need possible puppybuyers like other breeders too.

Is very difficult for people who is interested about breed to get to know it (as near as possible) if breeders from own country is missing.

And as i said before, is no sense to make puppies all the time (even in Finland) cause all puppies need responsible forever loving home. So here we can make puppies maxim. every other year, and still, we try to keep breed alive here as well. We have new dogs (maybe for breeding as well) and we have contacts to other breeders/owners, and we visit them sometimes as well.

So, that was my thoughts, wolfdog.org is yours, and you do what you like, i was just thinking.

-Suski

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

is there any idea to think about that list all "true" BREEDERS instead of all owners of female in breeding age? With "true" i mean breeders who have registered breedingname, and had have (Csv) puppies.

In Italy requirements to register a breedingname are :
- to be the owner of two females
- to pay 500 (or more) euro to Italian kennel club

These "requirements" make a breeder a "TRUE" breeder ?

[wolfin]

o me good this is reguls for producents not breeders

Originally Posted by Navarre

In Italy requirements to register a breedingname are :
- to be the owner of two females
- to pay 500 (or more) euro to Italian kennel club

These "requirements" make a breeder a "TRUE" breeder ?

[wolfin]

p.s. in Lithuania we have :
one bitch with breedings licenze (for wolfdog, HD, ED exam with rezults HD A-C, 2 dogs show or bonitation and good age for breeding)
Breeder mas pay for LKD (kynology asociacy) ...10 euro and registr hes kennel name, but only name, he is't breeders with mark FCI or LKD. This mark he becam when have 3 litter with hes kennel name (he mas have 2 generation with hes kennel name) or breeding 5 years.

[Koos]

In Holland there are still more rules.

At first you have to make at least a cours from about one year about healthyness, feeding, kynological terms, illnesses, exterior, genetica and some more things and then you have to do an exam.

After that you can asking for a kennelname and pay money to the Kennelclubassociation. 25 year ago I have payed Fl. 150, that is now about Euro 75,-- But I think it will be now about Euro 200, for registration

Then there will come somebody to look after where you will keep your dogs. When you have a male and a female, to look if you can seperate them when the female is in heat.
If you keep your dogs outside, if the kennel is big enough and not standing in the wind and is dry.

When you will have a litter, where you will rise the litter and were puppies will be born and if there is enough light and fresh air.

So if we speak about certain rules, we have and not only paying a lot of money, and having a bithto breed with or 2 litters. Maybe therefore the puppies have a higher price then in other countries.

Letty from Holland

[wolfin]

Yes in Holland is good reguls
in Lithuania i think 80 % breeders isor hendlers in dogs show, or asistent in dogs show, or judge or vets

[Wolfsirius]

Yes, in Holland is good system. In Finland is similary.

To be a vet or judge in Finland is not easy. How is it by you, Daiva, what needs to be a judge, and how long must study to be a vet?

Still, i must say, that it does not matter "who you are" for that how you keep dogs and breed. We have crazy vets in Finland, and crazy judges are breeders as well, those, or any "titles" dont make people better, many other things do.

-Suski

[Wolfsirius]

I think that massproduction, inbreeding,
continual puppy making, unsuitable homes for puppies etc. are not mistakes which made only people who are not studying themselves "higher" than many other.
I think no one of us is able to say that mistakes in our breed had made because some people are not vets or judges, assistents or something.

Even i have to say that almost all my bad experiences is from "those people" Is often like is said;
"Shoemakers kids dont have any shoes"
Of course, there is good vets, excellent ones, and good judges as well, of course. Is like in generally.

I think Satu must tell how come to be judge in Finland, she have more info about that
(i am not so get acquainted into it cause i have no plans to be a judge)

Letty, how is it in Holland, what need to be FCI judge?

-Suski

[Koos]

Hello Suski,

To be a FCI judge you need several things.

At first that part I wrote about. Then it continues with with more genetic, phychologic from the dog, more information about the inside of the dog and feeding problems and illnesses and a part of moving form the different kind of dogs.
Also at the end an exam.

Then the 3. part, this is a combination of recognizing movement and exterior from different dogs with his special muskulation for it and recognation of diffenrent coats.
Also with an exam with judging 3 males and 3 females dogs from diffenrent races and another part, speaking about dogs and mistakes by dogs and examination over all the FCI races. Of course all the about 400 races is much too long to speak about but we have to learn them all.

After that you are a beginning judge and allowed to judge only your kind of race you are interesting in. Not at FCI National of International show but also at lokal shows to make experiences with judging.

To be a real judge you have to do race exam and that will be an exam with 3 males and 3 females and writing a judgereport and then after that part you will be examinated by some people about these reports and you knowlegde about this race and illnesses and futureprogramm and how the stand of breeding is at that moment and how the standard was writing and the changements during the years.

When you come trough this all you are a real judge an allowed to judging at FCI shows.

Then you have to do 4 national shows and after that you are allowed to judge in foreing countries with only allowness of our National Kennelclub.

So if you do this whole project it takes, in the most optimal conditions, 4 - 5 years to become a judge.

If you fale for one of these exams you have to wait for over one year and for the real judgeexams it depends when the race club will organize such an exam again and that can be taken minimal 5 years.

So it takes a looooooong time to become a judge.

Letty

[*Satu]

First about kennelname. In Finland...
You most be 18years old.
You most be suitable person to get kennelname (not anyting illeagal crimes agaist animals etc.)
You most be member of Kennelclub and your breedclub.
You need breedclub recommendation.
You most write breeding contract (you keep our dogs good and you promise that kenneladviser can visit when it wants.
They can come anytime to control your animals and places.

Then you most go breeding basic curse part one (16h and 40€) incl.genetig,health, illness, animal protectlaw, breeding, breedingrules and canine anatomy etc.
And pass final examination successfully.
Then you can ask kennelname. ca. 200€

And if you want to become judge in Finland. Your way is hard and stony!

Firt you most had have dogs owner /breeder ad last 10 years.
and you need kennelname.
You have to be judge assistant (study for it takes many days)
You most study breeding basic curse part one and part two.
again you need breedclub recommendation.

Then maybe you can go to suitabletest and "dogeye"test and maybe pass it as well.

Then you can study 4 differents books genetiand then you can ask if kennelclub accept you. Studing bacic course takes over 8 weeks.
Every breed most study sepparatelly and you most pass judgingtest for each.
And you most to do judging practise many times.

Judgecurse is very expensive and takes lot of your time.

And if you are judge you most study every year and make tests.

Its so easy and light to come judge in Finland