Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

still manage to make dwarves because they have not even thought about doing a simple test,

Congratulations for the listed parents of Demoniak for having DM and DW tests done!

And for Demoniak himself too, of course!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

We had the doubtfull luck to be able to have a longer look at the animals in question on the Expo in Reggio Emilia. As photos really don´t show how distressed those animals are I made some videos over 3 hours.
As you can see they are very different to normal CSW in looks and behaviour. The handlers didn´t stand up most of the time and shielded them the whole time. They were so terribly stressed that they collapsed after some hours and layed down, not because they started to relax but because they were so mentally they switched off. Thankfully the animal shown was disqualified by the Czech judge.
In Germany I would have reported them to officials for cruelty against animals, their acting is clearly against German law. I feel sick looking at them again.
No doubt beautifull animals but also no doubt very unhappy and abused animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5FYxZh3Jo

Ina

[LadyJessy]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We had the doubtfull luck to be able to have a longer look at the animals in question on the Expo in Reggio Emilia. As photos really don´t show how distressed those animals are I made some videos over 3 hours.
As you can see they are very different to normal CSW in looks and behaviour. The handlers didn´t stand up most of the time and shielded them the whole time. They were so terribly stressed that they collapsed after some hours and layed down, not because they started to relax but because they were so mentally they switched off. Thankfully the animal shown was disqualified by the Czech judge.
In Germany I would have reported them to officials for cruelty against animals, their acting is clearly against German law. I feel sick looking at them again.
No doubt beautifull animals but also no doubt very unhappy and abused animals.

Ina

I can't see the video, is private!

Do you know why my dog ​​was stressed out? Because was his first time in the expo! We only went once again to Serra.
I do not like the expo, I do not need the judgment of a court. If dogs could talk ... try to ask if they prefer to go to expo or walking in a forest! Who knows what would answer....
Unhappy and abused animals? But you have no idea where my dog ​​live? how is treated? how dare you say such a thing?
You can say whatever you want, but not that my dog ​​is unhappy and mistreated because otherwise you've never seen a dog mistreated!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

I dare to say such a thing because I have seen with my own eyes for three hours how those animals felt there!

Ina

[leila]

sorry, but if the dogs are well socialized, they can not be stressed in expo like these, in bus, in city, in place with lot of people... this is not a question of breed, but of education and socialization...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by LadyJessy

I can't see the video, is private!

Do you know why my dog ​​was stressed out? Because was his first time in the expo! We only went once again to Serra.
I do not like the expo, I do not need the judgment of a court. If dogs could talk ... try to ask if they prefer to go to expo or walking in a forest! Who knows what would answer....
Unhappy and abused animals? But you have no idea where my dog ​​live? how is treated? how dare you say such a thing?
You can say whatever you want, but not that my dog ​​is unhappy and mistreated because otherwise you've never seen a dog mistreated!

Well, a very interesting comment as you told us you don´t want to breed Gunner, so why do you take him to expos you don´t like??
And I could also see you very well chatting happily around in this group so I have to resume looking at your comment here that you obviously can´t read canines body language.

Ina

[vero et sa meute]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We had the doubtfull luck to be able to have a longer look at the animals in question on the Expo in Reggio Emilia. As photos really don´t show how distressed those animals are I made some videos over 3 hours.
As you can see they are very different to normal CSW in looks and behaviour. The handlers didn´t stand up most of the time and shielded them the whole time. They were so terribly stressed that they collapsed after some hours and layed down, not because they started to relax but because they were so mentally they switched off. Thankfully the animal shown was disqualified by the Czech judge.
In Germany I would have reported them to officials for cruelty against animals, their acting is clearly against German law. I feel sick looking at them again.
No doubt beautifull animals but also no doubt very unhappy and abused animals.

Ina

bonjour

je suis la propriétaire de

jalisca
Géméhtouès des loups de l'ostrevent

d'un mes chiens NE SONT PAS MALTRAITES donc soit vous arretez de dire de suite des conneries soit je porte plainte cette fois contre propos diffamatoire et là j'ai des preuves

de deux

EN AUCUNS CAS GEMEHTOUES N A ETE DISQUALIFIEE que cela vous enmerde je m'en bats mais royale mais avant de la ramener je crois que vous feriez mieux de vous renseigner car les slips que j'ai entre les mains sont la seule bonne fois encore une fois de mes dires

donc lachez vite car vous ME GONFLER SERIEUX

[vero et sa meute]

traduction

Hello I am the owner of jalisca Géméhtouès of the wolves of observes it of one my dog IS NOT THUS MISTREATED you is stop saying in succession bullshit are I door pitied this time against slanderous comment and there I have proofs of two IN NO CASES GEMEHTOUES Was DISQUALIFIED that it annoys you I fight but royal but before returning her(it) I believe that you would better make inquire because the pairs of underpants which I have between hands are the only good time once again my statements thus break fast because to INFLATE ME to you SERIOUSNESS

[elisa]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We had the doubtfull luck to be able to have a longer look at the animals in question on the Expo in Reggio Emilia. As photos really don´t show how distressed those animals are I made some videos over 3 hours.
As you can see they are very different to normal CSW in looks and behaviour. The handlers didn´t stand up most of the time and shielded them the whole time. They were so terribly stressed that they collapsed after some hours and layed down, not because they started to relax but because they were so mentally they switched off. Thankfully the animal shown was disqualified by the Czech judge.
In Germany I would have reported them to officials for cruelty against animals, their acting is clearly against German law. I feel sick looking at them again.
No doubt beautifull animals but also no doubt very unhappy and abused animals.

Ina

What happened at minute 5 to close the muzzle of this afraid animal?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Good question, I didn´t see this before. But even watching it three times I really can´t tell you. Maybe it didn´t panik enough and was therefor aggressiv?? Or it dared to growl out of stress???

Ina

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I can not see any facts in Sophies dogs that look like american wolfdogs! These are purely europaen wolfdogs. I would call them foundation stock of csw!

NO? Gunner des Loups de l'Ostrevent - bred by Sophie is 100% AWD-cross. He do not have ANYTHING what characterize European Wolfdogs.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

So we have here true csw = foundation stock animals because from mother and father side is fresh carpathian wolf blood inside. And in days like this sociaty does not want any aggressiv barking wolfdogs! So it was the right time to bring in fresh blood and brink the csw down from hyperactiv behavior.

Christian - we do not want ANY mongrels. The dogs bred by Frank and Sophie are mixes of something. But 1000000% they are not real EU-wolf x CsW mixes. It is obvious they have AWD (and Saarloos?) blood.
But the video shows another thing: it is also 1000000% sure the dogs have CHEATED pedigrees - there are NO DOUBTS about it. I hope after it the Slovakian Club will report it to FCI finally.

Second point: the extrem shyness and the catatonic behaviour of these animals shows that they are NOT European Wolf crosses. But American Wolf crosses.
And your words protecting those mixes are the best example: you love AWD (Saarloos type dogs) because they have different character than CsW: CsW are WORKING breed - they have characteristic temperament (active, prepared to protect the owner/to work as protection dogs). And you hate it. But you love AWD character - it is why you like Sophies dogs so much... The animals of Sophie show the Saarloos alike temperament typical for AWD crosses.

And last: YOU are not the CsW breeder. And even as a breeder you would have NO RIGHT to decide about this breed. As I wrote you already: it is not your property. And the Slovakian Club says: such shy character is disqualification fault. RESPONSIBLE breeder would not breed with such dogs. So stop bringing happiness to us by force... We LOVE the "hyperactiv behavior" of your dogs. It is why we want to have this breed. Who do not like it should buy a SAARLOOS or AWD. I find the behaviour of the dogs of Sophie HORRIBLE. I know tamed WOLVES which are much more relaxed in such places than the mixes bred by her.
It will be a DISSASTER for this breed if CsW will behave like those animals. At the moment there are some shy CsW but usually it is caused by missing socialization. Those mixes are just shy be genetic. There is no "cure" for it.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And I am wondering Margo and Sarka wrote above that they were very interested in Sophies dogs when seeing them first time. I can not understand why both recognize them as pure csw - but Eichhorns are not able?

Christian - the first generation (Demoniak) could be a NICE CSW. I agree. Because of it it was possible to cheat breeders in the begining. Me too. I come from Poland where cheating of pedigrees IS NOT POSSIBLE here because it is threatened by a VERY huge penalties (Person like Frank would be kicked from ZKwP and FCI with ALL his dogs !immediately! if it would happend in PL).. NOBODY in my country would be a such an idiot to cheat pedigrees so obviously. And if somebody would do it the kennel club will forse him to make the DNA tests. And after it would remove such person from FCI - it means an END for everybody who would make something like this. I was thinking in France it is the same - that the French kennel club GARANTY that dogs listed in the pedigree match to the reallity. I was thinking that breeders would be affraid to make any frauds. I WAS WRONG.

After we discovered the French fraud of the pedigrees we informed about it all breeders in PL. If somebody will try to import such dog we will go on the official way against such breeder. None of those mongrels will be registered by us.
I will also NEVER use the mixes of Frank - even for free!!! As I would never cross my dogs with any street dogs of unknown origin. Demoniak can be mistaken with a CLC. But NONE of his children - all of them a Saarloos-AWD alike (what shows that he also is a AWD cross). Totally untipical according the CsW standard. Look on Fantastik Wolweryne de la Louve Blanche:

He looks like Malamute-German Shepherd Cross with light eyes.
Look on the dog Edora owner by Sophie:

It look like 100% Saarloos. 0% Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.

No Christian - those animals will be never good blood for our breed. They bring atypical look and atypical character. And for sure in the next generation we will see more strange dogs in France... Because F1 crosses can be nice but their children show already charactertistics of different breeds used by Frank while breeding his mongrels...

One thing is good Now all people - all CsW owners and breeders will see "who is who": who is a good and responsible breeder and who is just a bussines man breeding for money. Because NONE of the good breeders will ever use any of those mongrels. They will be used only by puppy millers - producers who will see a source of money in it... Because there is no other reason for using the mixes with fake pedigrees then puppies production made for $...

PS. I would liek to say "thank you" to Sophie for showing those animals in Italy. If there were any people who had ANY doubts - she dispelled all doubts because people wad the chance to see the mixes with their own eyes. Now everybody agreed that those animals have FAKE pedigrees and they are NOT CsWs...

[wolfin]

one question in who method they are a NEW line if have in pedigree dogs what blood in breed are much, and not rare? if make a line mas make oficial without falsh pedigree with permission from Slovak club with empty pedigree from 1 to 4 generation. Why falshing documents? Now they not are any new line, only animals with cheating documents.

maybe organizator this alls show not think who make. Now pack mas change a documents if want have and OFICIAL rare line

[LadyJessy]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Congratulations for the listed parents of Demoniak for having DM and DW tests done!

And for Demoniak himself too, of course!

Demoniak Diamond N/DM
Doz Wolfsirius N/N
Gunner de loups de l'ostrevent N/DM
Graal de loups de l'ostrevent N/N

All tested in Laboklin!

[leila]

I can not play the video

[julie9471]

You call a good education of the ill-treatment? It is really ugly the jealousy, I hope that each of the detractors here presents notice as they are ridiculous with the eyes of the others... And then " animals of sophie to domer ", they are dogs, whatever you said about it, and I think that nobody authorized you to film and to spread(broadcast) these images as well as the name of the mistress!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

I have changed the video to open, now you should be able to see it.
And I am not talking about Gunner as you can easily see. No matter of my opinion about him.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by julie9471

You call a good education of the ill-treatment? It is really ugly the jealousy, I hope that each of the detractors here presents notice as they are ridiculous with the eyes of the others... And then " animals of sophie to domer ", they are dogs, whatever you said about it, and I think that nobody authorized you to film and to spread(broadcast) these images as well as the name of the mistress!

I am not jealous of those poor creatures and refuse to call them dogs.
As it was an openly shown group on an open, non-private occasion it is absolutely legal to film and photograph them. A risk she takes if she feels the need to show them there. Or is there something needed to be hidden??

Ina

[wolfin]

Ina, thanks for video I share him in all forums who we have. Very good example about ATYPICAL behavior and anatomy.

Jelous from what- we want CRY for poore animal, and sory, not important are first dog show or 100 - NORMAL CSV and PURE CSV all time are easy to handle, happy from contact with others people and dog, and not have stres from this all. ( yes are and shy animals, but not like this) they are moore sarlos ( maybe want a change a breed papers- sarlos are moore rare and have better price) and not call this animals CSV, when they are moore from anatomy and behavior Sarlos not CSV

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by wolfin

Ina, thanks for video I share him in all forums who we have. Very good example about ATYPICAL behavior and anatomy.

Jelous from what- we want CRY for poore animal, and sory, not important are first dog show or 100 - NORMAL CSV and PURE CSV all time are easy to handle, happy from contact with others people and dog, and not have stres from this all. ( yes are and shy animals, but not like this) they are moore sarlos ( maybe want a change a breed papers- sarlos are moore rare and have better price) and not call this animals CSV, when they are moore from anatomy and behavior Sarlos not CSV

Thank you Daiva, I think one can´t share it often enough to inform about a very realistic danger for our breed and to give some realistic informations about the result for the animals itself.

Ina

[julie9471]

Definitively, I believe that it is not these magnificent dogs which are poor creatures, finally the man will always remain equal to him even, it is sad