Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Morian

eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please

Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean. For them working ability is there when you can teach the dog to sit for a treat. For people that work dogs it is the stamina to proceed the trained work under all cicurmstances. Nothing to do with aggressiveness but with the will to work and the ability to ignore disturbing surroundings and of course endurance in concentration.
But working dogs need owners to be in charge and funktion as a pack leader, that means they also ask abilities of their owners, to have a show dog is much easier and less challenging.

There is a thread on the German forum "Vorfälle bei der Nacht der Wölfe" that shows very nicely the way of thinking in both groups. Christian with a panicking AWH met people with CSW. Both kind of dogs showed typical canine behaviour and typical "breed"behaviour, one owner wasn´t in charge...

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

Ina

[Morian]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean.

first. i don't mean working abilities, the standard does. and second. ability doesn't mean diploma. dog must be able to work, but nobody is obliged to. by the way. not too long ago i heard something very funny from some breeder. he told "we breed WOLVES, which must look wolfish, must not bark and work like gsd" i wonder why do they need csv for this, the breed created for "upgrade" of working abilities, endurance and health of gsd. i don't want to say that csv must work like gsd and this is the main point, i like wolfish csv too, but we must remember about the standard which takes into account both things - and temperament/working abilities, either wolfish look. it clearly describes typical temperament and exterior both.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.

this is really sad, i'm agree with you. many people are "purchased" by exotic look, they don't know and don't care about other sides of the breed which are not worse than just wolfish look. now i have pups and 99% of people name exterior only when i ask why csv. but i still don't think that working dog must look ugly but we have what we have. some people care, some don't. i wonder about another thing: why dogs which don't not meet the standard are still called csv, used in breeding etc. i don't mean demoniak or other mixes only, i mean all dogs which "don't fit" - shy dogs, "plant-alike" dogs, dogs with serious discrepancy in the exterior etc. but this is a rhetorical question, oh yes.

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

Koboldine

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by koboldine

This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

Koboldine

yep. I tell you about this who are in Lithuania when I know hystory and situation in my country. People not want a NICE wolfyyyy, they want a CSW with good behavior, when almost 90 % CSW live in city in a flat, mas day per day have contact with transport, people, others animals, mas have good obedience, be social WITHOUT shy, mas and defence theys master if need this when owner back to home in night. They want a THIS CSW from what this breed and born and grown- working - house- family member, not nice plant in garden only.