British Kennel Club Recognition

[Rona]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

REGARDING BREEDER "ORKWOLF"
I take the care of my dogs and pups seriously, I have been working alongside my animal welfare officer over the last few months to become Orkneys only licensed & regulated breeder, this should be completed by the 28th October,

Will you really get a breeder licence if you have bred mixes? Of what breed(s) breeder are you then???

Originally Posted by orkwolf

REGARDING BREEDER "ORKWOLF"
I am not the only breeder in the UK who breeds pure CsV to 3/4 cross CsV. Why am I getting slated!

I find it really humorous, that you, just like Mr Winder and his friends use the same argument over and over again... Some individuals abuse animals, but it doesn't give anybody any right to do so, does it?

Originally Posted by orkwolf

Come to my farm on the Orkney coast, stay the weekend, see my dogs, play with them, fuss them, see their two exercise areas both 2 acres big, or see our own enclosed area of beach, that we own, that they play on, see their above standard kennelling, their health records, the £1000 every three months on vets bills, the £200 I spend on meat and food every week, see that I am not making £££££ but putting everything back into the care and welfare of my pack!

To tell you the thruth I would be more interested in reading if/how you socialize and train your dogs, what do you do with them apart from letting them run in the enclosed area, play and reproduce. Provided you breed CSV you must probably be checking their working abilities (?) - do you do tracking with them or maybe obedience, defence, dogtracking or agility? Have you ever taken them to any dog schools? Have you passed any exams with them? Which training methods did you find most suitable for your CSVs? What is the temperament of your dogs? Are they friendly to strangers/children/other animals? How do they behave in the streets and public transport? Do they make you laugh? What behavioural problems do you face with them? Etc. etc.
So far, of British owners only Layla has been writing of Tupac and Tassle and happyfeet about their dogs as of family members and friends; others - as of (sorry for the expression) cattle on nice farms

Offerring animals you're responsible for decent living conditions and vet care is such basics, that I feel surprised you, just like other pup producers from the UK put so much emphasis on it. Especially, that noone has ever blamed either you or them for not caring about the animals.

BTW The breed orignated in former Czechoslovakia and thus where its name comes from, not is Slovenia, Hungary and Austria.

[pixie]

My Dog is a happy family member, who is extremely well socialised, but I never shouted it, because to me that is the norm to do with any dog not just CSV, and i may be able to get hold of a function room 1 mile off junction 23 of the m6, near Haydock racecourse if people want to meet up and get started

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by pixie

My Dog is a happy family member, who is extremely well socialised, but I never shouted it, because to me that is the norm to do with any dog not just CSV, and i may be able to get hold of a function room 1 mile off junction 23 of the m6, near Haydock racecourse if people want to meet up and get started

unless its near a a train station....no chance

[tupacs2legs]

also...does anyone know if the 'cw' dogs here are from 'suspect' litters?

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

also...does anyone know if the 'cw' dogs here are from 'suspect' litters?

does anybody anywhere know what are the suspect dogs/litters ?

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by pixie

My Dog is a happy family member, who is extremely well socialised, but I never shouted it, because to me that is the norm to do with any dog not just CSV, and i may be able to get hold of a function room 1 mile off junction 23 of the m6, near Haydock racecourse if people want to meet up and get started

Is there a train station near by? If not some of us may have an issue getting there.

I will probably e able to find somewhere with convenient rail links in my area, provided those of you in the south, don't mind a trip to the epic industrial north lol.

Taz

[Maddie]

iv just done a quick google search for the racecourse and had a look at the closest train station, came up with this ...

http://www.haydock-park.co.uk/finding-us

[hedeon]

I am not sure whether we should hurry up with that meeting. First, I think, we need to consider who should be in the ‘active group’ .We will not achieve anything good, and will only discredit against KC, if this group will include mixes breeders, or owners of mongrels. I have nothing against mongrels, or their owners, but if the breed is to be recognized by the Kennel Club, it cannot be represented by them. Neither by people who have previously crossed the dogs. KC otherwise will simply LOL on us. The same is true with regard to the future of the CSV in this country. When I say breed, I mean pure breed, so for breeding should be used dog not leaving any doubts about their pedigree. This is just my opinion.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by hedeon

I am not sure whether we should hurry up with that meeting. First, I think, we need to consider who should be in the ‘active group’ .We will not achieve anything good, and will only discredit against KC, if this group will include mixes breeders, or owners of mongrels. I have nothing against mongrels, or their owners, but if the breed is to be recognized by the Kennel Club, it cannot be represented by them. Neither by people who have previously crossed the dogs. KC otherwise will simply LOL on us. The same is true with regard to the future of the CSV in this country. When I say breed, I mean pure breed, so for breeding should be used dog not leaving any doubts about their pedigree. This is just my opinion.

i agree... and its partly why i asked the 'cw' question.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by hedeon

I am not sure whether we should hurry up with that meeting. First, I think, we need to consider who should be in the ‘active group’ .We will not achieve anything good, and will only discredit against KC, if this group will include mixes breeders, or owners of mongrels. I have nothing against mongrels, or their owners, but if the breed is to be recognized by the Kennel Club, it cannot be represented by them. Neither by people who have previously crossed the dogs. KC otherwise will simply LOL on us. The same is true with regard to the future of the CSV in this country. When I say breed, I mean pure breed, so for breeding should be used dog not leaving any doubts about their pedigree. This is just my opinion.

I would be willing to help in any way I could, but that rules me out.

[Maddie]

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

i think you took the post wrong....but tbf maddie it is important imo that the people behind this have the right motives(owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels are two different things imo),also if we want the dogs we already have here registered they can be no 'doubt' they are pure csv or it would be a 'mockery' and pointless.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

Well said Maddie, pity not many are like this just yet...

Unfortunately, the current 'breeders' past motives have been to mix to make money (they are not doing it to preserve or improve a breed, so what other reason is there?) - and they don't see anything wrong in that , so if they now want to breed pure, who can blame others for being a bit suspicious of their change of heart, and the true motives behind that?

[Shadowlands]

Would you not welcome lovers of the breed who are not yet owners? I am not sure the kennel club stipulates that all members of a club MUST be current owners (although, I don't know this for a fact, so please correct me if I am wrong). The registry of dogs must only contain pure bred CsV's (FCI registered or not, as this is what your ultimate goal is). I agree on the non inclusion (clumsy, but seemed nicer than exclusion ) of current 'breeders' who breed mixes though - they will have to get their own settlement with the KC first, independent of the pure CsV club, or it will make a mockery of what you are trying to do. Your hardest bit is going to be trying to find the pure dogs without the help of these 'breeders', but I am not sure if your initial list needs to be exhaustive (once recognition is achieved, dogs can be added retrospectively - again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

By including people who hope to become owners in the future (near or distant), you are ensuring your club can continue to grow. You will be bringing in lots of varied experiences and opinions which can all be added to the 'melting pot'. You will also be able to address the breeding pool issue easier if prospective owners are planning to import from various kennels.

As for suspect dogs because of the CW issue - I don't think you can exclude them entirely at this point since they are still FCI recognised. It may be at some point in the future that some will have to be removed from the recognition, but that will be happening on a world-wide scale, so the KC cannot blame you for including them now.

Well done for getting the ball rolling and lots of luck

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Would you not welcome lovers of the breed who are not yet owners? I am not sure the kennel club stipulates that all members of a club MUST be current owners (although, I don't know this for a fact, so please correct me if I am wrong). The registry of dogs must only contain pure bred CsV's (FCI registered or not, as this is what your ultimate goal is). I agree on the non inclusion (clumsy, but seemed nicer than exclusion ) of current 'breeders' who breed mixes though - they will have to get their own settlement with the KC first, independent of the pure CsV club, or it will make a mockery of what you are trying to do. Your hardest bit is going to be trying to find the pure dogs without the help of these 'breeders', but I am not sure if your initial list needs to be exhaustive (once recognition is achieved, dogs can be added retrospectively - again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

By including people who hope to become owners in the future (near or distant), you are ensuring your club can continue to grow. You will be bringing in lots of varied experiences and opinions which can all be added to the 'melting pot'. You will also be able to address the breeding pool issue easier if prospective owners are planning to import from various kennels.

As for suspect dogs because of the CW issue - I don't think you can exclude them entirely at this point since they are still FCI recognised. It may be at some point in the future that some will have to be removed from the recognition, but that will be happening on a world-wide scale, so the KC cannot blame you for including them now.

Well done for getting the ball rolling and lots of luck

where has anyone said they would exclude non owners? that would be a ridiculous thing to do....its not a cult

i think i worry about the cw dogs as our csv population is so small,if there is any doubt i do not think they should be bred from...if it turns out they have to be 'removed' that would be half the population already 'mutts' and the whole thing would be 'laughable' imo

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Tassle

I would be willing to help in any way I could, but that rules me out.

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

Sorry, but I still did not make myself clear. "Active group" in my mind, in the future could become the core of the British CSV Club. Support such a club can anyone who's intentions are clear, and honest. If he is a owner of a hybrid, or a dog of another breed, no interferes. Shouldn’t be a member of a club, and his mixed dog / bitch cannot participate in reproduction. I know several people who do not have a CSV and are supporting CSV community really great. So I don’t think you are out.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by pixie

My Dog is a happy family member, who is extremely well socialised, but I never shouted it, because to me that is the norm to do with any dog not just CSV,

I'm glad to hear it! It's not about shouting, but sharing, or rather who finds what worth sharing
It's just a pity that statistically we know least of UK vlcaks as of individuals. I've always wondered why...

Brukne, Frei, Misha, Hronec, Rasty, Raksa, Jolly, Tsijki, Jezzi, Imbus, Luna and Pollux, Marcy's, Daniela's dogs and many others are like our good acquaintences, I'm almost sure I'd recognize them if I saw them in the street. While of all Brirish CSV we only know Tupac, well maybe also a bit of Kaya. Don't you find it strange?

Even if some mix producers are not very enthusiastically received here, I'm sure the dogs would always get a warm welcome. Sad, so few UK owners feel like sharing the joy and problems of raising their vlcaks with other owners.

Maybe this is another area worth considering and a good point for starting mutual understanding and cooperation between British/continental owners and breeders?