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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters....

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Old 30-05-2011, 21:49   #1
massimo
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Slowly....slowly... strange results from normal mating start appearing.
Till they are super wolfish everybody is happy (although they are just as unlikely to be real)..but when they come out with a beautiful Saarlos red, people start worrying.

For those who didn't understand what I meant in THIS POST....maybe now you understand!

Solution? EASY!! DNA TEST....without consent of breeder...unofficial.
I don't trust "certain" breeders anymore.
I dont know Lorry and cannot say anything good or bad about her.
Just know that Vorss is owned by her and Vorss sons look strange too...

Martiou, funny thing is that with these "strange" breeding results in france, purchase is INCREASING , not decreasing, which means that the brain of the buyers are getting smaller and smaller...
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Old 30-05-2011, 21:59   #2
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Hello Massimo,

there are DNA test, Thalia and Sibir are good parents ....

What do you think ?????

the big problem now is that touches a very known breeding…. On the English forum we have participants of all nationalities, I would like to have your opinions ..... The French livestock has a very bad reputation, normal, much of very atypical dog… these dogs are for the majority of the descendants of breeding of Sibir and Thalia…. there is what to raise questions ..... no ?
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Old 31-05-2011, 09:31   #3
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Very surprising color. Well, the two dogs are closely related, Sibir being Thalia's uncle on both sides, but still even in close inbreeding I would not expect that color on CSW.
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Old 31-05-2011, 17:15   #4
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Those are very heavy accusations. Be carefull about what you are saying and also, please read something about genetics before you spread such gossip about any CSW.

If we are really talking about brown pigmentation (red puppy, brown nose):

* To have such a puppy born in a litter with parents with black pigmentation, both parents must have gene for a brown color/pigment. If such gene is possible for Czechoslovakian wolfdogs, we would have brown puppies quite often over the years!

* So, from a CSW statistic, you can NOT have puppy with brown pigmentation from a litter in which at least one parent is pure CSW!



PS: Don't you have a larger photo?
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Old 31-05-2011, 21:58   #5
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Quote:
If we are really talking about brown pigmentation (red puppy, brown nose):

* To have such a puppy born in a litter with parents with black pigmentation, both parents must have gene for a brown color/pigment. If such gene is possible for Czechoslovakian wolfdogs, we would have brown puppies quite often over the years!

* So, from a CSW statistic, you can NOT have puppy with brown pigmentation from a litter in which at least one parent is pure CSW!
Yes, I think this is the point of the question

Best regards / M
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Old 01-06-2011, 16:10   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayen View Post
Those are very heavy accusations.
Well, I did not write accusations but deductions, the facts are:

- Thalia x Sibir gave some red puppies (Saarloos alike)
- DNA tests tells Thalia x Sibir are the parents
- From what I know both parents have to be carriers, so finally hundred of dogs may be involved worldwide

Last edited by elf; 01-06-2011 at 16:22.
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Old 01-06-2011, 16:37   #7
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The question of parentage seems to be very important now - it is possible to find out if Galiba really is father of Sibir, but even more important - and harder to find out - is whether parnts of Thalia are the ones that are declared. Thalia and Galiba should have the same father. And there are a lot of offspring of Mona z Krotkovskeho dvora. It is hard, but genetic tests should be able to at least show, if it is possible for two dogs to be half-siblings.

Either way, birth of such red pups from supposedly purebred mating is a grave matter and brings issues such as parentage testing to new levels of importance.
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Old 01-06-2011, 17:22   #8
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Purely in theoretic part, since we never seen brown CSW before.
Carriers of brown color are quite easy to find by DNA test. Maybe it could help to consider this:

Brown dog (bb) + CSW (BB) = all puppies are born black pigmented and all are carriers of brown gene (Bb).

Black pigmented dog with brown gene (Bb) + CSW (BB) = all puppies are black pigmented, some puppies are carriers of brown gene (Bb), some not (BB).

Bb + Bb = 25% BB, 50% Bb, 25% bb
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Old 31-05-2011, 22:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
For those who didn't understand what I meant in THIS POST....maybe now you understand!
Or if they want to understand, maybee this one is better >>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...ighlight=mixes

Best regards / M
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:41   #10
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Who of all wolfdog forum readers did ever see this red (saarloos alike red color with brown nose) before in a CsW litter?

I am only intersted in what you did see (not in names or blaming breeders) )
Because mutations can always appear in every breed!
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:37   #11
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I would not be surprised if start to appear diluted colors in CzW as weird characteristics due mutations, principally when it comes from a consanguineous mate, but show a different feature in a tipical dog, with tipical proportions is very different than show this in dogs we can see are not tipical.
Im nor even entering here in the merit of "someone cheated or not" but the fact that even by this simple photo we are able to see that these dogs are not CzW independant of their color, it's water clear by their heads.
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