Pollux needs a new home (Florida - USA)

[yukidomari]

Isn't your friend Ms. Mullaly (sp?) Pollux's co owner? Won't she take him back? What is Pollux 'unpredictable' about?

[Vaiva]

Poor Polux... Sorry, but I don't understand this kind of possition. Well, sometimes dogs grow up different when we expect them to, but is it really a reason to get rid of him?... Dogs should be family members, especially if they are as social as CzW are...

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Poor Polux... Sorry, but I don't understand this kind of possition. Well, sometimes dogs grow up different when we expect them to, but is it really a reason to get rid of him?... Dogs should be family members, especially if they are as social as CzW are...

this obviously is not the case here

Pollux is of 'no use' puppies are more important

i guess it is best he finds a new home where he will be loved for what he is and be part of a family!!

if only i lived closer

[hanninadina]

This makes me really angry!!!! All this bully sh.t what Luna´s Mum wrote here and she was the one who encouraged the first owner of Pollux to take him, so that Luna is not alone any more. Poor Pollux now getting to third owner - and I bet that will not be the last. Why people do not believe what is written here over and over that csw are not easy dogs and not to compare with ordinary dog breed? It is a pure wolfdog!

I hope breeders like Edit will learn out of this and do not send the pups that far.

Edit does not take pups back ... - as you wrote Rona, she is a big breeder - breeding for money.

For Luna´s Mum and the first owner of Pollux - wasn´t she a dog trainer ... hahahaha - there are only one word a....es

Christian

[Rona]

Guys, it's the worse possible moment to start another war and scoring points! There is a dog that needs help and that's what matters. Dogs change owners for various reasons, misfortunes happen and none of us can be 100% sure he/she will be always able to keep their dog(s).

Dogs disappear mysteriously, are adopted at different age, sold abroad for lump sums, etc. etc. Only because people do it quietly they go away with it and nobody criticizes them...

Neither did I like Lunasmom's and her friend's approach to selecting and importing the pup, but at least I can see open and responsible attempts to socialize, train and re-home Pollux. It's still much more fair than what many others do with "unwanted" dogs.

[draggar]

Please note: Anything I say here is not intended in any way to be a negative comment or insult towards Crying Wolf Kennels. She bred a wonderful dog with Pollux.

Originally Posted by Rona

Have you already contacted Pollux's breeder? Most reliable breeders get involved in the re-homing of 'their' pups. Crying Wolf is a big kennel exporting pups to many destinations, so Edit probably has good contacts in various parts of the world. I'd start by contacting her and seeking her advice.

Yes, I just emailed back and fourth with her this morning. She knows some people who may take him but we want to see if we can keep him local.

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Isn't your friend Ms. Mullaly (sp?) Pollux's co owner? Won't she take him back? What is Pollux 'unpredictable' about?

His "unpredictable" behavior is mainly when I'm walking him. If he's on a leash he doesn't like strangers or even people he's met before (like my neighbors). He'll avoid, avoid, and avoid. But at the dog park he walks up to strangers and kisses them.

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

this obviously is not the case here

Pollux is of 'no use' puppies are more important

i guess it is best he finds a new home where he will be loved for what he is and be part of a family!!

if only i lived closer

I'm glad you've read what I posted I'm also glad you're able to put it as if we're just dumping him of at a shelter.

Pollux being with us was never intended to be a permanent solution. When he came to us full time he was put into a better situation than he was in (don't worry, he wasn't abused). We also spent many months working him, socializing him, training him, taking him to schutzhund, and even starting him out in the service dog training program. To say he is of "no use" is a serious slap in the face and insulting.

Also, the puppies are just one of the reasons. As I mentioned, HIM BEING HERE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A PERMANENT SOLUTION. The puppies are also being bred for a SERVICE DOG program. Sorry we feel that helping people (especially veterans) by breeding in some service dogs for a service dog program. One puppy from our previous litter is in an autism service dog program and doing extremely well.

We took him in when we knew we didn't have the room or time for him but we made room and time for him.

Or would you prefer if we re-homed one of my wife's service dogs? I'm sure she doesn't need to go out as often as she does to places like work, errands, etc..

As for the new home, my wife is excellent at finding the best homes possible for our dogs. We did malinois rescue for many years and found them all homes that fit them perfectly. Our past liters of puppies all went to great homes. She makes sure that not only is the home is right for the dog but the dog is also right for the home.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

This makes me really angry!!!! All this bully sh.t what Luna´s Mum wrote here and she was the one who encouraged the first owner of Pollux to take him, so that Luna is not alone any more. Poor Pollux now getting to third owner - and I bet that will not be the last. Why people do not believe what is written here over and over that csw are not easy dogs and not to compare with ordinary dog breed? It is a pure wolfdog!

I hope breeders like Edit will learn out of this and do not send the pups that far.

Edit does not take pups back ... - as you wrote Rona, she is a big breeder - breeding for money.

For Luna´s Mum and the first owner of Pollux - wasn´t she a dog trainer ... hahahaha - there are only one word a....es

Christian

My wife didn't tell her to jump in and grab the first one she sees (no offence to Crying Wolf / Edit - it just happened that way.). My wife told her to RESEARCH and find what she wants and then work with that kennel, even if it meant waiting a while. The owner wanted a Luna but didn't want to wait. Pollux was never a Luna and never will be. If he had gone to a good pet home or low level working him he would have been great but he went to an owner who had far more expectations for him that he didn't live up to.

Pollux is wonderful. We love him and gave him more than he had before. We even tried him in the service dog training program and if he worked out then this thread would not even exist but you can't have a service dog that gets skittish especially when someone is relying on him for mobility and physical stability.

I find it odd here how we tried to do the right thing to take in a dog we had no room and little time for because he wasn't in the best situation and even what we could give him was an improvement over what he had before yet I"m the one getting trashed. We didn't import him, we didn't initially adopt him. We told his owner to research first yet we're the ones cleaning up the mess.

Just because we're cleaning up the mess doesn't mean we made it.

[tupacs2legs]

[quote=draggar;381184]

I find it odd here how we tried to do the right thing to take in a dog we had no room and little time for because he wasn't in the best situation and even what we could give him was an improvement over what he had before yet I"m the one getting trashed. We didn't import him, we didn't initially adopt him. We told his owner to research first yet we're the ones cleaning up the mess.

Just because we're cleaning up the mess doesn't mean we made it.[/QUOTE

]

while i do not agree with a few things,i guess this paragraph makes my post irelevant,and for that. i am sorry

i am aslo sorry that Pollux will be onto his third home

hope he finds a forever home soon and is happy.


eta... 'home' and 'part of a family' does not imply shelter to me

Originally Posted by yukidomari

What is Pollux 'unpredictable' about?

I know Draggar's already talked about this, but I just want to point out that while it's very sad that something as "small" as a dog being skittish or reserved on a leash can be a problem, with something as important as actual work for a dog, it's enough to wash a dog out of a program entirely. Of course you only hear stories of fantastic dogs helping the blind, disabled, etc, that have perfect temperaments and all that, but what you DON'T typically see are the number of dogs that wash out of those programs at various stages. Once it's known that a dog won't be able to be used as a reliable service dog, larger organizations have rescue systems in place with waiting lists a mile long to adopt the dogs that don't make it. This case is similar, only it's just one family doing the work, so they don't have a network already in place with homes lined up around the corner. It takes a really strong character in a dog to be able to work all day long and take everything in stride, and while I'm sure Pollux will make a fantastic pet, he obviously would be miserable if he were asked to work all day.

I'm sorry you guys are having to rehome Pollux, and I wish there were a way I could help! If situations were different here, and I lived closer, I would snatch him up in a heartbeat, but unfortunately, it's just impossible for us to take on another dog right now. Good luck finding him a good home!

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Vicky

I know Draggar's already talked about this, but I just want to point out that while it's very sad that something as "small" as a dog being skittish or reserved on a leash can be a problem, with something as important as actual work for a dog, it's enough to wash a dog out of a program entirely. Of course you only hear stories of fantastic dogs helping the blind, disabled, etc, that have perfect temperaments and all that, but what you DON'T typically see are the number of dogs that wash out of those programs at various stages. Once it's known that a dog won't be able to be used as a reliable service dog, larger organizations have rescue systems in place with waiting lists a mile long to adopt the dogs that don't make it. This case is similar, only it's just one family doing the work, so they don't have a network already in place with homes lined up around the corner. It takes a really strong character in a dog to be able to work all day long and take everything in stride, and while I'm sure Pollux will make a fantastic pet, he obviously would be miserable if he were asked to work all day.

Oh, sure, but if you are planing to have just a servise dog (with a possibility to give him away, if he or she won't be suitable for this kind of work), maybe you should FIRST choose another breed! CsW are known to be "one person's dog", the change of the owners could be more difficult for them, etc.
SECOND - if you still want a CsW to be a servise dog, please, spend some time to study the lineages, to contact various breeders in various countries, etc. Just buying a puppy from the first one who agrees to sell it to you in this case is a Very Bad Idea.
Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"...

[GalomyOak]

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work. Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is. Sara, while concerned, was excited for her friend buying a puppy and tried to support her through the problems she had with Pollux from the early days; I don't imagine she ever thought Pollux's owner - her friend - someone who works with dogs, would do this to Pollux, it's very disappointing on many levels. I think Ed and Sara, feeling bad for Pollux, wished to get Pollux in as good a place as they could for his eventual "forever home" - with training, socialization and love. At the same time, Sara depends on her dogs for...well, her life. I think she recognizes that she can't give Pollux all that he needs in her home, living only as a pet beside the dog(s) she currently uses for service work, as well as the old retired ones (they don't live on a huge farm where they can keep ten dogs outside - all of their pets live in their house). I think now she wants to make sure he does go somewhere appropriate to his needs, where he can live inside as a much loved pet and companion, without huge training expectations, for the rest of his life.

It is an unfortunate situation, not one that I am happy about...and I do wish breeders in Europe would think very, very carefully before sending a dog to someone far away who they have never met, or that has no reference, at the very least, from an experienced CSV owner. Crying Wolf is definitely not the only breeder who is "guilty" of this. We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly". I also wish new owners would go to see where and how their puppies are really raised, in what conditions, how the parents are, and of course, look at lineage. I think most new owners don't realize how important these things are for CSVs, maybe even more than other breeds. I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog ...Ed is maybe just one of the more honest, "open" and vocal people to discuss this on the forum.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"...

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work.

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is.

Luna not only exceeded our expectations with her SD training, she far exceeded our wildest dreams, she's doing great and we think she might actually enjoy it, although she won't admit it. SHe did enjoy Cape Canaveral and Disney last month, though!

I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog

Older? He's only 15 months!

[tupacs2legs]

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

[draggar]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

Luna went though a regression (for the lack of a better term) around 12-14 months. Pollux seemed to go though the same at the same age, we think he went out of it about a month ago.

The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process.

[Gypsy Wolf]

I do feel like I need to jump in here and perhaps clarify the situation. I got Luna from Marcy KNOWING the commitment it takes to raise a dog - Service Dog or not - and KNOWING what my limits are when it comes to how many dogs I can manage in my home.
My friend saw Luna and how amazing she is and wanted one of her own NOW. So yes, despite all of our telling her to take her time and research, she decided on Pollux.
In the beginning everything was fine and as she has been training dogs for years, I figured it was the perfect placement - yes, he might be different that she was used to but challenges teach us, right?
Well, after a while, she decided she was not interested in working with him any longer and he was relegated to a kennel in the back yard.
That is where we came in - I suggested we take him for a while and work with him - FOR A WHILE. I felt responsible for him as I had introduced my friend to the breed and if I could work with him and help him, he could go back to her better off.
So he came into our home and I worked him like we work any of our other dogs - some Service Work, some Schutzhund, some Conformation training, etc.
He has made some huge strides under our care and training and he is an amazing dog - every achievement makes me proud. But Pollux is not our dog, I have all the dogs I can handle on my own. I WISH I had the time, room, etc., to keep him ourselves, but we don't, and it isn't fair to my other dogs, either.
There is a saying here "no good deed goes unpunished" and it's painfully true here - we are trying to do our best by a dog that is not even ours and we are getting attacked for it.
It's not our mess to clean up, but he has fallen into our lap and we want to do what is fair for him.
Fair for him would be a home where his owners have more time than I do to work him through his issues.
At least I will know, personally, where he will go... in someone else's hands, I have no idea where he might be placed.
We are Pollux's foster home - we have plenty of experience being "interim" homes for rescue dogs, so your support would be more appreciated than your criticism. We are trying to improve his home situation - don't you think we feel awful having seen his situation deteriorate? I didn't encourage my friend's interest in the breed in order to create a problem - obviously had I any inkling of what would happen, I wouldn't have helped her find him in the first place... but she likely would've found another one on her own, and becasue I feel I am a steward of the breed, it is my duty to try and help a vlcak in need. So go ahead and criticize me if you want, but ask yourselves what you would do in my place...

[Rona]

Originally Posted by draggar

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Originally Posted by draggar

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.
Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Rona

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

I wish someone would convince my dogs of this! I taught my female to "speak" on command...but mostly just so I could also teach her a gentle command to be quiet. If she gets jealous, or sees a squirrel, or there is a visitor...like all strong women, she has no problem speaking her mind! And being a CSV, she decided to teach all of my other dogs to...talk.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Rona

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Here are some (not so good) pictures (Pucktures?) we took of him the other day:

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...r/pets/Pollux/

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.

Right now he is in the full "gape" aspect of it. To him the sleeve is a toy and he wants the toy (he's on a padded puppy sleeve now). He gets the toy, he runs around with it, and then he drops it (and on occasion rolls around on it). The helper gets the sleeve, taunts him with it, and then the game starts over again. He's not serious with it at all, to him it is just playtime with him, me, and the helper.

Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

IMO the dog didn't have the right training, or at least the wrong training at the wrong time. Pollux hasn't done any "protection" part of it and he doesn't see it as protection - he just sees it as playing. Also, any good schutzhund dog should know when to "turn it on" and when not to, it seems this dog did not.

Our club is very good and non-political (very few of those here in the USA). They are not DVG or USA affiliated (hence no politics) and their primary focus is on the dog. I've seen clubs try to ruin dogs just so they can justify their own methods and get more $$$ for training and others just flat out refuse dogs into their club that aren't good (or just insult the dog until the owners leave).

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

Quiet? Vlcaks are a quiet breed? You've never met our Luna. Pollux, though, I'm trying to train him to bark on command. He never barks unless he sees other dogs (like Luna) go running past his crate and he wants to come out to play or when he and Luna are playing a lot, then they get chatty. Other than that, he's very quiet.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly".

You mentioned Lithuania, I know one dog sent from our country, could you please be more exact about the negative point in which he was mentioned?

Anyway, this sad story is also a lesson for European breeders...