Is the Czechoslovakian wolfdog breed for me?

[Tassle]

It seems to me this thread has thrown up an interesting cross section
You May get a CSV who is Ball/toy driven
You May get one that is Food driven
You May get one who is Shy
You may get one going to work


...or you may not

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).
So I guess it comes down to the kind of trainer you are, how much of a challenge are you up for and how much are you willing to change your training ideas to suit the dog? as opposed to trying to change the dog to suit your ideas?

(this is my overall impression from this thread - so far )

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by Tassle

It seems to me this thread has thrown up an interesting cross section
You May get a CSV who is Ball/toy driven
You May get one that is Food driven
You May get one who is Shy
You may get one going to work


...or you may not

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).
So I guess it comes down to the kind of trainer you are, how much of a challenge are you up for and how much are you willing to change your training ideas to suit the dog? as opposed to trying to change the dog to suit your ideas?

(this is my overall impression from this thread - so far )

Hahaha well as a trainer I am not set in one way of doing it. I feel that every dog is different and am open to all ideas and different way of training.
I am up for anything. The only thing that I'm not ready for training wise is a dog that is people aggressive. I was bit on the face as a child so I am nervous around super aggressive dogs (dogs properly trained in protection work are NOT aggressive, just for people who don't know ). I will get over that at some point!

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

Hahaha well as a trainer I am not set in one way of doing it. I feel that every dog is different and am open to all ideas and different way of training.
I am up for anything. The only thing that I'm not ready for training wise is a dog that is people aggressive. I was bit on the face as a child so I am nervous around super aggressive dogs (dogs properly trained in protection work are NOT aggressive, just for people who don't know ). I will get over that at some point!

you cannot guarantee that with any dog let alone a csv

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

you cannot guarantee that with any dog let alone a csv

I'm talking about an obvious people aggressive dogs. Like previous offenders. Dogs that have already attacked and injured people. If some one comes up to me with a fear aggressive dog I can deal with that, these ones don't "look" for fights(that have seen).

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

I'm talking about an obvious people aggressive dogs. Like previous offenders. Dogs that have already attacked and injured people. If some one comes up to me with a fear aggressive dog I can deal with that, these ones don't "look" for fights(that have seen).

Do you mean taking on an older dog? or a puppy with predisposed genetic traits?

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Do you mean taking on an older dog? or a puppy with predisposed genetic traits?

Haha no I thought we were talking about dog training in general. I would want to get a wolfdog puppy to start with.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

Haha no I thought we were talking about dog training in general. I would want to get a wolfdog puppy to start with.

In a way I was - but more specifically with regards to the kind of dog you want.

Aggression issues can happen for 2 main reasons, environmental or genetic.

However - exceptions can happen with training. (For example, it is possible to train a dog predisposed to genetic aggression out of it, and is is possibly for a dog with no genetic predisposition to become aggressive through environmental factors.)

Whatever you want - if you are taking on a dog that has been bred for a specific reason or has been developed to do a job, you have to work very carefully through training, you have to bear that in mind when taking on the dog. As Tupac says - there are no guarantees.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Tassle

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).

That's what I was trying to say. But, if you want your dog to be trainable and be willing to enter tiny/dark spaces, you need not only good picking and persistence and out-of-the-box training technique, you also need luck, and that one no-one can guarantee. And, in my opinion, wolfdogs remember the bad things very well, so a string of bad luck can turn your well-socialized, inquisitive and well-behaved wolfdog pup to a shy and hysteric adolescent that you will need a lot of time and energy to bring back to what you had before. If one is not sure if wolfdog is the breed for them, I think it is better to anticipate bad luck and such, and be pleasantly surprised, than the other way around.

Maybe it is different in your country, but I am really sick of people who say wolfdogs are no good as working breed, just because they tried to get results in the same way as with GSD or, even worse, BS, and of course failed, and instead of trying different approach, they just got rid of the dog. And of people who tell you to get a nice breed if you come to a training with wolfdog. I mean, if you are willing to give away your present dog for a new one, just because this one is not progressing in the way you wanted, than wolfdog is not a breed for you. We have too much of this kind of approach here, so I rather scare a potential owners away. Wolfdogs can be taught to obey different people and to spend time with strangers and whatever, but they are essentially a one-person dogs.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by saschia

That's what I was trying to say. But, if you want your dog to be trainable and be willing to enter tiny/dark spaces, you need not only good picking and persistence and out-of-the-box training technique, you also need luck, and that one no-one can guarantee. And, in my opinion, wolfdogs remember the bad things very well, so a string of bad luck can turn your well-socialized, inquisitive and well-behaved wolfdog pup to a shy and hysteric adolescent that you will need a lot of time and energy to bring back to what you had before. If one is not sure if wolfdog is the breed for them, I think it is better to anticipate bad luck and such, and be pleasantly surprised, than the other way around.

Maybe it is different in your country, but I am really sick of people who say wolfdogs are no good as working breed, just because they tried to get results in the same way as with GSD or, even worse, BS, and of course failed, and instead of trying different approach, they just got rid of the dog. And of people who tell you to get a nice breed if you come to a training with wolfdog. I mean, if you are willing to give away your present dog for a new one, just because this one is not progressing in the way you wanted, than wolfdog is not a breed for you. We have too much of this kind of approach here, so I rather scare a potential owners away. Wolfdogs can be taught to obey different people and to spend time with strangers and whatever, but they are essentially a one-person dogs.

i agree

although i would say,anyone with that mindset should not have any breed of dog.

your dog should be a companion and friend first and foremost, 'sports' or 'jobs' is an added bonus imo.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

although i would say,anyone with that mindset should not have any breed of dog.

I don't like this approach too, but for some people dog is a dog, not a partner. I do not judge them, they have their reasons, but such people should avoid wolfdogs, IMO.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by saschia

That's what I was trying to say. But, if you want your dog to be trainable and be willing to enter tiny/dark spaces, you need not only good picking and persistence and out-of-the-box training technique, you also need luck, and that one no-one can guarantee. And, in my opinion, wolfdogs remember the bad things very well, so a string of bad luck can turn your well-socialized, inquisitive and well-behaved wolfdog pup to a shy and hysteric adolescent that you will need a lot of time and energy to bring back to what you had before. If one is not sure if wolfdog is the breed for them, I think it is better to anticipate bad luck and such, and be pleasantly surprised, than the other way around.

Maybe it is different in your country, but I am really sick of people who say wolfdogs are no good as working breed, just because they tried to get results in the same way as with GSD or, even worse, BS, and of course failed, and instead of trying different approach, they just got rid of the dog. And of people who tell you to get a nice breed if you come to a training with wolfdog. I mean, if you are willing to give away your present dog for a new one, just because this one is not progressing in the way you wanted, than wolfdog is not a breed for you. We have too much of this kind of approach here, so I rather scare a potential owners away. Wolfdogs can be taught to obey different people and to spend time with strangers and whatever, but they are essentially a one-person dogs.

I agree - I am learning about these dogs daily (on here). I do not count the Mutt I live with as I believe he takes after his 'other' side!

The time it takes for training has to be a factor - they do not seem to be a dog for people who want instant gratification (months) with regards to training, you would be more looking at long term (years).

CSVs are still rare over here, and (to my knowledge - although Tupac would know more) there are no pure bred who are actually working.

Maybe it is different where they are 'popular' but I guess the looks baring the passing resemblance to the GSD/BSD people assume the trainability will be the same.
From what I have seen they are intelligent - which should mean they can be trained. They have an athletic conformation which also sets them in good stead. However - their development seems quite different, the maturing time and sensitivities?

When I spoke to my old boss (a guy who was in the Czech Army in the 70's) and told him what I had - his instant response was very dismissive. He pretty much told me it was a waste of time, based on his experiences working with them in the Czech army, but I am guessing they were very much in their infancy at this point, and he was used to dogs who were 'easier'.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Maybe it is different where they are 'popular' but I guess the looks baring the passing resemblance to the GSD/BSD people assume the trainability will be the same.

I agree!! Sometimes I think people [want to] assume CsVs are just "wolf grey" themed GSDs..

Besides.. there aren't two 'looks' to a Vlcak.."more GSD" or "more wolfish". The standard says 'similar to a wolf' - anything else is simply a Vlcak with not much type.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I agree!! Sometimes I think people [want to] assume CsVs are just "wolf grey" themed GSDs..

Besides.. there aren't two 'looks' to a Vlcak.."more GSD" or "more wolfish". The standard says 'similar to a wolf' - anything else is simply a Vlcak with not much type.

Who believes this?

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Who believes this?

Oh, I didn't mean you said that!

Simply just that I have seen things like "My CsV is more like its German Shepherd roots and............" mostly in response to appearance.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Oh, I didn't mean you said that!

Simply just that I have seen things like "My CsV is more like its German Shepherd roots and............" mostly in response to appearance.

- I joke that my guy has GSD days and Wolfy days (but he is a cross)