About wolfhybrids

michaelundinaeichhorn · 13-11-2010, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

/ Mikael

Thank you for reminding me not to feed the troll, I apologize.

Ina

Hanka · 13-11-2010, 13:38

Hi hi, right smiles Mikael

hanninadina · 14-11-2010, 11:13

http://books.google.com/books?prints...page&q&f=false

On page 11 in the middle, it starts with:

"It is well known ...."

The founder from the gsd von Stephanitz confirms, yeah that it is well known that it is not a problem to get used "wilddogs" for example wolves to live in the city. By the way the question mark, which is in this american version is in the german version not existing!

That it is objectively possible, to live with wolves, von Stephanitz confirms more than 100 years back. That it from a certain point does not make sense in a pure breed used for specific work is obviously. He claims in his book too, that he did it and found the right "mixture" and that there is no need for other breeders to cross in more wolfblood.

For me is the point that you people understand that a wolfdog F 1 - F 4 is nothing else than a wolfdog and not a unpredicable beast. If you can not read a csw F 5, F 6, you will not be able to read a F 1. But it is nothing special for the engaged dog owner. You all would help the breed csw if you do not talk about things which are simply not true. Because it is always a reason of genes how a wolfdog behaves and not which generation after a wolf he is. And all people I know who owns F 1- F 4 have less problems with these dogs than most people have and had with their csw, especially when they were young. As I wrote already, no wonder having these hyperactiv "high quality" working german shepards in them. Every breeder in the US and Canada knows if you breed a wolf to a german shepard, people will get problems - like most people with csw had and have. So you can look to France, like I already wrote too, there are a lot of csw in shelters. People were badly informed from money making breeders and getting huge problems. And the bad thing is that these animals are well known being aggressiv. It will get over to all csw - hopefully only in france - that it is an agressiv breed.

fenris · 14-11-2010, 19:18

I will remind you all while comparing the Vlcak with the typical american "wolfhybrid" some important distinguishing points:
1. Most wolfhybrids are misrepresented with their wolfblood percentage.
2. Most real high-percentage wolfhybrids are not kept as ordinary dogs, but have special made enclosures and are not let free running in the park! They need special care and during such circumstances a lot of them behave well. This cases cannot be compared to the ordinary CWD
3. Lots of the male hybrids are castrated to prevent difficult bahavior.
4. All high-percentage wolfhybrids are pulled from their mothers as early as 10 days old and hand-raised and bottled fed by humans to prevent shyness. Not like a dog who is nursed by their mothers. This makes a huge difference.
5. Wolfhybrid enthusiasts tell you about the good examples, but forget to tell you about all the animals put to death because they couldnt be handled or became aggressive.
6. High percentage wolfhybrids have much stronger prey-drive than dogs that can not be suppressed by training. One or two examples of the opposite doesnt change this fact.

I want to emphasize this facts since comparing a well bahaved wolf who is cared for with the special requirements needed to keep such an animal with a Vlcak that is supposed to behave and act like a dog is a little naive!

michaelundinaeichhorn · 14-11-2010, 19:27

You don´t need to remind us all - just one of us ....

hanninadina · 14-11-2010, 19:43

Fenris, do you are experienced? Do you have contact to owners, breeders, trainers, scientists? Please tell me your name and where you have your knowledge from?

There are in comparison to the number of wolfdogs much more dogs in shelters! Scientific proved that dogs bite the double than wolfdogs!

What you are writing here, is simply gossip! That what all people write who are not in the "business". You better should get contact with the many people who rescue adult wolfdogs from low ove mid to high content without any problems. Watch my website. I got Nuno with 21 month. I did not bottle feed him. He lived for 17 month only in enclosures, the last 12 month, before I got him without any people contact. They threw the food over the fence. He was not leash trained, nothing. And now? Now he is leash trained, he loves every dog, woman and man. Visitors can come with their dogs without any problem in my garden. meeting dogs during walking no problem. And he is not the only one where it is so, I know a lot of these animals who all are the same.

You can look in face book and you tube over 20 clips proving and confirming what I wrote here. Last week a finish film team made a documentary about wolves and they shot a lot of walking leash scence with my animals with a finish politician in the greens. My dogs did not know these people. They were much nicer than every average dog. Sorry, but I can not hear these old phrases from people who know nothing, except repeating things from people who are spreading gossip.

Better you take your time and watch you tube and facebook than you maybe will understand what I am talking about. These old stories are boring!

michaelundinaeichhorn · 14-11-2010, 20:04

Apart from your problems with statistics, do you really want Daniel from Lobo Park to state here about Nuno, how you got him and how he lived before. No problem, he will love to tell everybody.
So don´t think twice but better three times about this!
Sorry the rest of you but this is incredulous.

fenris · 14-11-2010, 20:17

I prefer real life and real experiences to "facebook and youtube" . If virtual reality is your recommendation for learning about this matter it explains everything about your position. And I do have real first hand experience on this matters. That is the reason why I make this statements. The danger lies in the fact that some people might beleive you and buy a highpercentage wolgdog and keep it with their small children and neighbouring cats. Often everything runs smooth with a young wolf, but then surpassing 3 years old things start to change. I would like others on this forum with real experiences (not facebook and youtube) to tell the truth about this matter.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 14-11-2010, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenris

I prefer real life and real experiences to "facebook and youtube" . If virtual reality is your recommendation for learning about this matter it explains everything about your position. And I do have real first hand experience on this matters. That is the reason why I make this statements. The danger lies in the fact that some people might beleive you and buy a highpercentage wolgdog and keep it with their small children and neighbouring cats. Often everything runs smooth with a young wolf, but then surpassing 3 years old things start to change. I would like others on this forum with real experiences (not facebook and youtube) to tell the truth about this matter.

Well Michael und me agree 100%, Daniel from Lobo park will do so, Tanja Askani caring for the wolves in Wildpark Lüneburger Heide will, Erik Zimen did, need some more, no problem?

Ina

14-11-2010, 11:13	#3
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	http://books.google.com/books?prints...page&q&f=false On page 11 in the middle, it starts with: "It is well known ...." The founder from the gsd von Stephanitz confirms, yeah that it is well known that it is not a problem to get used "wilddogs" for example wolves to live in the city. By the way the question mark, which is in this american version is in the german version not existing! That it is objectively possible, to live with wolves, von Stephanitz confirms more than 100 years back. That it from a certain point does not make sense in a pure breed used for specific work is obviously. He claims in his book too, that he did it and found the right "mixture" and that there is no need for other breeders to cross in more wolfblood. For me is the point that you people understand that a wolfdog F 1 - F 4 is nothing else than a wolfdog and not a unpredicable beast. If you can not read a csw F 5, F 6, you will not be able to read a F 1. But it is nothing special for the engaged dog owner. You all would help the breed csw if you do not talk about things which are simply not true. Because it is always a reason of genes how a wolfdog behaves and not which generation after a wolf he is. And all people I know who owns F 1- F 4 have less problems with these dogs than most people have and had with their csw, especially when they were young. As I wrote already, no wonder having these hyperactiv "high quality" working german shepards in them. Every breeder in the US and Canada knows if you breed a wolf to a german shepard, people will get problems - like most people with csw had and have. So you can look to France, like I already wrote too, there are a lot of csw in shelters. People were badly informed from money making breeders and getting huge problems. And the bad thing is that these animals are well known being aggressiv. It will get over to all csw - hopefully only in france - that it is an agressiv breed. Last edited by hanninadina; 14-11-2010 at 11:15.

14-11-2010, 19:27	#5
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	You don´t need to remind us all - just one of us .... Last edited by michaelundinaeichhorn; 14-11-2010 at 19:30.

13-11-2010, 13:38	#2
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hi hi, right smiles Mikael

14-11-2010, 19:18	#4
fenris Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 59	I will remind you all while comparing the Vlcak with the typical american "wolfhybrid" some important distinguishing points: 1. Most wolfhybrids are misrepresented with their wolfblood percentage. 2. Most real high-percentage wolfhybrids are not kept as ordinary dogs, but have special made enclosures and are not let free running in the park! They need special care and during such circumstances a lot of them behave well. This cases cannot be compared to the ordinary CWD 3. Lots of the male hybrids are castrated to prevent difficult bahavior. 4. All high-percentage wolfhybrids are pulled from their mothers as early as 10 days old and hand-raised and bottled fed by humans to prevent shyness. Not like a dog who is nursed by their mothers. This makes a huge difference. 5. Wolfhybrid enthusiasts tell you about the good examples, but forget to tell you about all the animals put to death because they couldnt be handled or became aggressive. 6. High percentage wolfhybrids have much stronger prey-drive than dogs that can not be suppressed by training. One or two examples of the opposite doesnt change this fact. I want to emphasize this facts since comparing a well bahaved wolf who is cared for with the special requirements needed to keep such an animal with a Vlcak that is supposed to behave and act like a dog is a little naive!

14-11-2010, 19:43	#6
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Fenris, do you are experienced? Do you have contact to owners, breeders, trainers, scientists? Please tell me your name and where you have your knowledge from? There are in comparison to the number of wolfdogs much more dogs in shelters! Scientific proved that dogs bite the double than wolfdogs! What you are writing here, is simply gossip! That what all people write who are not in the "business". You better should get contact with the many people who rescue adult wolfdogs from low ove mid to high content without any problems. Watch my website. I got Nuno with 21 month. I did not bottle feed him. He lived for 17 month only in enclosures, the last 12 month, before I got him without any people contact. They threw the food over the fence. He was not leash trained, nothing. And now? Now he is leash trained, he loves every dog, woman and man. Visitors can come with their dogs without any problem in my garden. meeting dogs during walking no problem. And he is not the only one where it is so, I know a lot of these animals who all are the same. You can look in face book and you tube over 20 clips proving and confirming what I wrote here. Last week a finish film team made a documentary about wolves and they shot a lot of walking leash scence with my animals with a finish politician in the greens. My dogs did not know these people. They were much nicer than every average dog. Sorry, but I can not hear these old phrases from people who know nothing, except repeating things from people who are spreading gossip. Better you take your time and watch you tube and facebook than you maybe will understand what I am talking about. These old stories are boring!

14-11-2010, 20:04	#7
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Apart from your problems with statistics, do you really want Daniel from Lobo Park to state here about Nuno, how you got him and how he lived before. No problem, he will love to tell everybody. So don´t think twice but better three times about this! Sorry the rest of you but this is incredulous.

14-11-2010, 20:17	#8
fenris Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 59	I prefer real life and real experiences to "facebook and youtube" . If virtual reality is your recommendation for learning about this matter it explains everything about your position. And I do have real first hand experience on this matters. That is the reason why I make this statements. The danger lies in the fact that some people might beleive you and buy a highpercentage wolgdog and keep it with their small children and neighbouring cats. Often everything runs smooth with a young wolf, but then surpassing 3 years old things start to change. I would like others on this forum with real experiences (not facebook and youtube) to tell the truth about this matter.