puppies tool

[buidelwolf]

Hello Vaiva,

For several months I also can no longer use the tool, at least from this Site, which I regret too. I suppose it also has to do with the crash of a hard disk. I assume that this will undoubtedly soon be repaired too.

The tool Elf made available is about simmilar and perhaps even more complete. The only downside of it is that its measurement is is only on a limited number of generations (5). Regarding the COI: the more generations to be measured, the more objectively the outcome as we all know.

Greetings Robbert

[mijke]

No Vaiva, even for moderators it works the same at this moment!

But I expect everything will work fine in time !

[yukidomari]

Since now the WD tool doesn't work, and the tool Elf linked is only 5 generation, is there any other way to calculate COI for 10 generations, besides by hand?

[elf]

5 generation

Hi,

I the tool I set the limit to 8 generations (the server used is not very efficient that's why I needed to add this limit), value are filled by default to 5 but you can change it from 1 to 8.

A.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by elf

Hi,

I the tool I set the limit to 8 generations (the server used is not very efficient that's why I needed to add this limit), value are filled by default to 5 but you can change it from 1 to 8.

A.

Thank you!!

[buidelwolf]

The problem of measuring the COI on only a limited number of generations (even on 8 generations), is that most of the large inbreeding effect during the early years, which in particular Rep z Pohranièní stráze has brought, is simply being disregarded. In genetics, the most reliable figures regarding inbreeding are obtained if one measures the COI on as many generations as possible. In that respect it is regrettable that the COI measurement on ALL generations (temporarily?), is no longer possible on wolfdog.

Elf, being a fan of your statistic tool, does it ever get that possibility in the future?

Regards

[elf]

It would require some optimization but unfortunately I have not much time lately for updates. But I think the best would be to plug the database of this site to a pedigree software (like Pedserve), this would unload some work and provide many features.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by buidelwolf

The problem of measuring the COI on only a limited number of generations (even on 8 generations), is that most of the large inbreeding effect during the early years, which in particular Rep z Pohranièní stráze has brought, is simply being disregarded.

Yes, that is true, but some of the CW dogs I checked don't have compete pedigrees even in the 8th generation out. I have been reading about COI recently and came across this article. It doesn't talk about CW specifically but rather Australian Shepherds (some lines also don't have complete 10 generation pedigrees yet, like some CWs)..

Here is an excerpt:

"...The usual 3-5 generation pedigree won't give sufficient information for a useful calculation. For Australian Shepherds the author has found 10 generations to be the best indicator. Few Aussies have a complete 10-generation pedigree, so this will give you pretty much all there is to know. While some individual lines of descent may go back 20-30 generations, running the calculation for more than ten does not result in any significant change in the result. Running it for fewer than 10 frequently causes the number to drop, giving an incorrectly optimistic result...

Australian Shepherds are blessed with around 300 founders, so our background inbreeding is very low. However, our breed like most others has experienced historic inbreeding stemming from the choices made by recent generations of breeders who have used one sire more than others or frequently sought the output of a particular kennel. ...Even in working lines there are early sires and kennels whose names occur with considerable frequency."

I don't know if this is because Aussies have a larger foundation group (300), but if pedigrees for CW start to fray at around 8-9 generations back for some dogs, I think that an 8-10 generation COI is probably pretty accurate.

Still, I would like to be able to have the capability for all generations too!

http://www.ashgi.org/articles/breeding_incest.htm

ETA: Oh, wait.. I just reviewed some pedigrees again and the blanks in the 8th generations are those of the founder wolves. So then the question is.. how far back do the known pedigrees of the founding GSDs go?