Short coat defect

z Peronówki · 02-09-2010, 10:39

It is one of "my" favourite topics as for many years our Polish dogs were blamed by some breeders from the origin countries for having "short coat"... No wonder - they really had short coat expecially when we presented them in the winter... The reason is not the genetic but the adaptation to the conditions... While (for example) the Czech dogs were sleeping in the kennels by -25° our dogs were spleeping at home by +25°. No wonder there was visible difference in the coat...

But it is not possible to explain it - some breeders do not get it because forthem it is still unimaginable that a dog can sleep at home.....

The adaptation to the conditions have VERY big influence on the coat. You can judge it only if you know where the dog is living. Because as I wrote - especially in the winter the difference can be huge.

BUT - you are right. There are dogs with (too) short coat. It is visible expecially now because there are some popular (nice) stud dog which unfortunately "give" VERY short coat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

Is it "revertable", if for exemple the dog stay outside in a cold winter (i.e. epigenetics transmisson) ?

That the difference between standard and short coat. We made an experiment with Botis. He was the one of the 'coutch' dogs "blamed" for having short coat. He stayed for the whole winter in the kennel - believe me: I saw only few dog having so nice - long and thick - coat like him.

But there are dogs which have the same lenght of hair for the whole year. For sure you saw dogs which coat do not change. I saw some of such dogs in every country - if you put them into the kennels in the winter they will not get longer "wolfish" coat. They will be always shortcoated. But the quality of the coat will change - it will be VERY thick.

Mikael · 02-09-2010, 19:09

Here is one more coat test by miss Paula

>>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8369

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael · 02-09-2010, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

some breeders do not get it because for them it is still unimaginable that a dog can sleep at home.....

Yes and I think that was one of the reasan way the owner of Rasty was so happy for her to move to Sweden, now she sleeps in my bed

It´s very rear for dogs here to not sleep in the house

Best regards / Mikael

hanninadina · 03-09-2010, 11:59

Everything is true what is written here but I wanna add a thing. I have a female and male csw. The female has let us say short coat. She lived 3 years in the house and then 2 years in enclosure because in the new house was to small for 9 dogs. So Myla got in this two winters much more coat. And as Margo wrote, it became thicker, a bit longer but not really "wolfish" long. On the other hand I have Tala. His lines are from fathers side italian. He has much coat. He even does have in summer. In winter much more of course. My personal experience is that the italian dogs have more coat than the rest of the "pack". Funny thing is that in italy it is not so called like in the rest of middle/northern countries. So they managed to breed more the long coated wolfish looks. That looks from my point of view nicer. The only problem is that these dogs "suffer" more in the heat of the summer. But czechoslovakian wolfdogs does not change so "dramatically" their coat like wolves do. You see of course differences, but Wolves got in winter much more coat than in comparison a csw. I do not talk about expception which surely exist in csw world too.

It is a question of genetics which kind of coat the animals will have. You can test it before with the upcoming parents if you want to breed in the one or the other way. Today all is possible.

Christian

03-09-2010, 12:59

Does anyone have any pictures of their dogs in both winter and summer coats? I'd be interested to see the difference in the same dog, from season to season.

Silvester · 03-09-2010, 13:30

Hello Vicky ,

i myself do not yet have such pictures but if you look here in the list of wolfdogs under the name :

"Emba von der Wolfsranch"

you can see the photos of this bitch with her winter - as well as with her summer coat, just like you want.

( This dog has a strong difference between winter and summer coat. )

She´s the mother of my new wd. "Zeus Lupus Ibericus" - and living in Spaín - so in a quite hot climate at the moment.
Because my youngster was coming from that place and i´ve got him in the middle of december last year to my - much colder - place in Germany, he has not yet had a real "winter- jacket".

He´s now just 11 months old and i think he will get very strong winter-coat in next winter time, i will put pictures inside here again, ok ?

Have a nice time, bye- bye

Silvester from Germany

Silvester · 03-09-2010, 13:42

In addition to what i wrote just before, i want tell you that in this photos in the eight´s line of pictures from above you can also have a look at the changing of coat during spring time.

"Emba" changes coat almost like real wolf, as you can see.

But i know that a lot of so called "Northern breeds" ,like Huskies, Malamutes and so on do normaly and regularly also just like this -
it depends on the conditions of keeping and climate, like i wrote in my first posting here.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-09-2010, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky

Does anyone have any pictures of their dogs in both winter and summer coats? I'd be interested to see the difference in the same dog, from season to season.

summer
http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/en/gallery/pic/16104/
winter in a very cold area, staying much time outside though living in the house
http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/en/gallery/pic/8830/
winter in a warm area living in the house
http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/en/gallery/pic/88332/

Ina

z Peronówki · 03-09-2010, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

My personal experience is that the italian dogs have more coat than the rest of the "pack". Funny thing is that in italy it is not so called like in the rest of middle/northern countries. So they managed to breed more the long coated wolfish looks. That looks from my point of view nicer. The only problem is that these dogs "suffer" more in the heat of the summer. But czechoslovakian wolfdogs does not change so "dramatically" their coat like wolves do. You see of course differences, but Wolves got in winter much more coat than in comparison a csw. I do not talk about expception which surely exist in csw world too.

First - we should make distinction between "is" and "should be"....

You wrote about better coat of the Italian dogs. But take a look on the QUALITY of the coat. Long & thick coat do not mean at the same time "wolfish" and "typical".
I don't want to blame Italian dogs because there are many very nice typical dogs but everybody knows that some kennels there were trying to make "furry" Wolfdogs. But it doesn't worked fine - instead to select the "wolfish" coat the breeders made selection for "longhaired" dogs and the result are dogs which have nice but not typical coat because they selected for the genes comming from the longhaired German Shepherds.
ONLY such longhaired dogs do not shed in the winter and ONLY such wolfdogs surfer in the summer.

Second similar case is the "Husky" coat - some breeder selected dogs which have coat similar to the huskies - such dogs do not have long coat like "longhaired" Wolfdogs but thick and "standing" (the difference is mosty visible on the back legs). They look nice but also: such dogs do not shed properly and do not have typical "wolfish" coat...

"Typical" Wolfdogs shed a lot and there is really huge difference between winter and summer coat. It is really nice visible for example in Slovakia on the dog shows because in the winter the dogs stay outside in the kennels so they live in the similar conditions as the wolves. And if you compare the winter and summer coat of such dogs you will see that the difference is really HUGE. In Poland, Germany and many other countries there difference is not so great visible because the dogs stay at homes and the difference of the temperatures between in the winter (at home) and in the summer (at home) is very small...

Morian · 03-09-2010, 17:25

about adoptation. if we have one more summer like this... i'm even afraid to imagine

my guy, winter:

spring:

july

:

he even has some places with absolutely bare skin, it's not seen on the photo...

GalomyOak · 03-09-2010, 22:17

Taabernakkelin Jovice in summer:
http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...12176438978786
and winter:
http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...39582730456066

Taabernakkelin Hronsek is the same.

Anthea od Vlci Skaly has a shorter coat - it becomes very thick in winter, but not as long. Her coat also isn't quite as waterproof as the above 2, she takes a bit longer to dry, but nothing like my GSD.

I am curious to see how the coat of Wasabogoa will be - he was still going through puppy coat changes last winter.

Adams Morgan has a coat much like his dad.

Dacota · 05-09-2010, 10:58

Dacota in winter:

this is the summer coat:

you can see a big difference. And I must add, that all my dogs sleep in the house at night!

02-09-2010, 19:09	#2
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	Here is one more coat test by miss Paula >>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8369 Best regards / Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916

03-09-2010, 13:30	#6
Silvester Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 369	Hello Vicky , i myself do not yet have such pictures but if you look here in the list of wolfdogs under the name : "Emba von der Wolfsranch" you can see the photos of this bitch with her winter - as well as with her summer coat, just like you want. ( This dog has a strong difference between winter and summer coat. ) She´s the mother of my new wd. "Zeus Lupus Ibericus" - and living in Spaín - so in a quite hot climate at the moment. Because my youngster was coming from that place and i´ve got him in the middle of december last year to my - much colder - place in Germany, he has not yet had a real "winter- jacket". He´s now just 11 months old and i think he will get very strong winter-coat in next winter time, i will put pictures inside here again, ok ? Have a nice time, bye- bye Silvester from Germany Last edited by Silvester; 03-09-2010 at 13:33. Reason: Grammar mistake

03-09-2010, 13:42	#7
Silvester Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 369	Postscriptum In addition to what i wrote just before, i want tell you that in this photos in the eight´s line of pictures from above you can also have a look at the changing of coat during spring time. "Emba" changes coat almost like real wolf, as you can see. But i know that a lot of so called "Northern breeds" ,like Huskies, Malamutes and so on do normaly and regularly also just like this - it depends on the conditions of keeping and climate, like i wrote in my first posting here.

03-09-2010, 22:17	#11
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	Taabernakkelin Jovice in summer: http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...12176438978786 and winter: http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...39582730456066 Taabernakkelin Hronsek is the same. Anthea od Vlci Skaly has a shorter coat - it becomes very thick in winter, but not as long. Her coat also isn't quite as waterproof as the above 2, she takes a bit longer to dry, but nothing like my GSD. I am curious to see how the coat of Wasabogoa will be - he was still going through puppy coat changes last winter. Adams Morgan has a coat much like his dad. __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

03-09-2010, 11:59	#4
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Everything is true what is written here but I wanna add a thing. I have a female and male csw. The female has let us say short coat. She lived 3 years in the house and then 2 years in enclosure because in the new house was to small for 9 dogs. So Myla got in this two winters much more coat. And as Margo wrote, it became thicker, a bit longer but not really "wolfish" long. On the other hand I have Tala. His lines are from fathers side italian. He has much coat. He even does have in summer. In winter much more of course. My personal experience is that the italian dogs have more coat than the rest of the "pack". Funny thing is that in italy it is not so called like in the rest of middle/northern countries. So they managed to breed more the long coated wolfish looks. That looks from my point of view nicer. The only problem is that these dogs "suffer" more in the heat of the summer. But czechoslovakian wolfdogs does not change so "dramatically" their coat like wolves do. You see of course differences, but Wolves got in winter much more coat than in comparison a csw. I do not talk about expception which surely exist in csw world too. It is a question of genetics which kind of coat the animals will have. You can test it before with the upcoming parents if you want to breed in the one or the other way. Today all is possible. Christian

03-09-2010, 12:59	#5
Vicky Guest Posts: n/a	Does anyone have any pictures of their dogs in both winter and summer coats? I'd be interested to see the difference in the same dog, from season to season.

03-09-2010, 17:25	#10
Morian Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USSR Posts: 2,047	about adoptation. if we have one more summer like this... i'm even afraid to imagine my guy, winter: spring: july : he even has some places with absolutely bare skin, it's not seen on the photo...

05-09-2010, 10:58	#12
Dacota Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: in der Nähe von Berlin Posts: 136	Dacota in winter: this is the summer coat: you can see a big difference. And I must add, that all my dogs sleep in the house at night!