Tamaskan Dogs..

[Joswolf]

yOU SAY, QOUTE-you cannot claim to have bred a wolfy-looking dog without using wolves and garner all the credit from that when that is not true. For example, you can't breed a GSD to a Malinois and then claim credit for creating a GSD looking dog without using GSD (and thereby perhaps bypassing all the of the various health problems in the GSD). That is simply untrue and can also be very harmful to collective 'breed' knowledge including temperamental differences, potential health including ............ This is simply dangerous and totally irresponsible

First if Valco is no wolf they used no wolf when the breeder of Valco is Polarspeed. Then he was the one who breeded a wolf in a husky. But who can prove Valco comes from a wolf? You now Polarspeed or Yescoline couse then you now you cannot thrust his breeding and no one nows about what he does couse he simply doesnot tell anyone.
Second i do not untherstand the isseu about potential health or dangerous please explain are wolves dangerous?
And you do not need to explain me what a wolf looks like i have a polar wolf and Kapatian wolves and mixes and i now exactly what they look like.
I also saw Tamaskan and the so called F2 and i find no signals that tell me it is a hybrid. At the German meeting i found everyone happy with there Tamakan and no trouble like you would expect.
Jos

[yukidomari]

Yes, it would be the breeder at Polarspeed who bred Valko. Maybe we should DNA test Valko to the perspective sire?

And secondly I have never said 'wolves are dangerous', simply that lying about their pedigree is. It is dangerous for a variety of reasons including legal reasons and health knowledge. If the pedigrees are not forthcoming about the types of dogs used, then it is harder to isolate potential health problems commonly known to all breeds. If it is indeed true, for example, that GSDs were used as a foundation to Tamaskans, then breeders should be wary about the potential of Degenerative Myelopathy, for one.

Additionally, if a dog is not generations removed from wolf ancestry, it is illegal or requires a permit to own in many places and many countries. That is what is DANGEROUS. For both the dog and the owner, who can face the animal being confiscated, put down, fines, or otherwise. If Valko is a F1 wolfdog and Jodie at Blustag is his daughter, that would require a permit to own her.

You said, "At the German meeting i found everyone happy with there Tamakan and no trouble like you would expect."

I have never said that nobody was happy with their Tamaskan dogs or that they were somehow trouble prone?

[Joswolf]

And i never said that you have said .... i made a statement about the people i spoken to. A F1 or F2 doesnot belong to normal dogowners. But i did not now of such case. And if Valco is from a wolf that is, so i asume, just an rumor. And when it is a wolfdog is used that after F3 til F5 (depends on what state) it is asumed to be a dog. Actually i do not realy care and would like a bit more wolf. But the Tamaskan should look like a wolf and i like a dog being natury build like a wolf and when it behaves like a familydog who cares. And DS have far more genetic mistakes then the few you mension.
Now days genetic experts claim every dog has 300 till 400 genetic mistakes and by close breeding like inbreeding you wil get sic dogs finaly. So mixing is only better then pure breeddogs. But for some mistkes like DM you can test the breeding dogs. So if the breedirs are smart...
Jos

[GalomyOak]

In the USA (where we certainly have Tamaskans), a wolfdog/hybrid is considered anything <F5. These are the guidelines from the American Humane Society, who heavily influence our animal laws. Many states take it a step further - if the owner represents the dog as a hybrid to an official (vet, animal control, police officer, etc.) , it can be confiscated, or even worse, if it bites someone, it can be euthanized to have it's head tested for rabies. There is one case I can recall in my state where a 100% dog (didn't look anything like a wolf even!) was put down because the owner bragged to his vet that he had a wolfdog...he later said it was only a lie to impress friends, but it didn't save the poor dog.

Further, the behaviors one can expect from a wolfdog, or methods to use to train it or house it are often different or modified from what we use in regular dogs - not to be passed to an inexperienced owner looking only for a simple companion. I think it is important as an owner to know what is there in a dog...whether it be husky, wolf, CSV or otherwise - until a consistent level of recognized homogenity conformed to a standard can be reached.

[Joswolf]

So a wolfdog CWD or SWD is a dog >F5. A wolf is not used and if a F2 or 3 was used it is not wise and should not come to inexperienced owner but very experienced owner. We agree.
And I believed in USA it was where the hybrides ar being bred.
Jos

[GalomyOak]

Yep, we have plenty of hybrids here. Some are bred legally - in some localities (very few) there is no regulation on breeding them. In others it is okay to own them with a permit, which usually carries very strong rules. Many hybrid breeders try to stay "under the radar" - using their wolfdog's lineage as a selling point to potential owners, but telling vets and officials they own a malamute or husky mix to avoid legal problems. In any case, the enforcement of animal laws in the US is very relaxed compared to the standards I have seen in Europe. So in most cases, breeders who wish to remain under the radar can, and continue their breeding with very little oversight of authorities - and sell to whoever.

CSVs are an anomaly here in the US- legal, but certainly a risk to the CSV's safety if their owner represents them as being a wolfdog or some kind of hybrid, because most of the general public - even officials - has no clue about them because they are so rare...it's very important for owners to know the legal ins and outs of the breed, to closely abide by all laws, keep careful records of their dogs, and act responsibly. With recent wolf blood - even past F5, Tamaskan owners have to think about these same things, maybe more so since no major registry recognizes them, and they have no official papers as proof - which they would not if there were no recent wolf heritage. If they are unaware, and they meet an official who "has heard" about the breed...it could cause real danger for the dog.

[hanninadina]

You wanna see a real Alaskan Tundra wolf? Look here, this picture was made in the Alaska Tundra http://alaskaone.com/wildlife/images/wolf.jpg

These wolves from lobopark are arctics!

Luna´s mom is completely right, most people look for pet dogs. And in history most people had dogs for pet dogs. There are only a few working dogs. And sure the dogs who have more working abilites end in shelters, because they are hard to handle. A good breeder would never give a working dog, it does not matter, if gsd, mali or Briard to a family who only wants a pet. But there are lots of breeder who do not care.

I am wondering about these rumors that Polar Speed has wolfblood inside. Gossip. And this so called F 1 Alaska Tundra Siberian Mix.... Hm, people do not make things interesting which are not worth to talk about it.

In his newest studies world wide leading genetic professor from University of California Bob Wayne found out that even in the ancient dog breeds who are older than 500 years like Basenji, Saluki, Malamute, Siberian Husky, Chow Chow are wolf genes in them. So are these wolfdogs too? It is a lack of knowledge which leads the people to head cinema.

Lunas Mom is right, if there are people who like "pet" wolfy looking dogs that if csw breeders are not able to bring them down, let other people investigate and develop new breeds. For comparison I started in dog world with Briard - Berger de Brie, french Herding dog -. In france these dogs were more aggressiv and working line. In germany the breeders were succesful in changing Briards to real pet dogs for families. And nobody is complaining, less problems more happy people. The society is changing and wants only nice dogs. So why hanging in standards and not looking for nice kind dogs. In italy the dogs are changing like my comparison with german Briards more to pet dogs because they are selection faster because of more puppies. That is the normal way of breeding.

By the way all of you who are complaining about "hybrids" please have a look on facebook in my videos or my website about my american wolfdogs. They are quite friendly and handsome with strangers, strange dogs and I like them very much as pet dogs and for doing sports as jogging, biking and swimming. And I have of course two csw as well and everyday again the comparison. It is as ever in life have a look for the good ones, means the good breeders, it does not matter which breed.

And of course you find in a shelter good dogs. My two male dogs were shelter dogs. And I took them because I could see the good things in them which are quite more than the bad things. With the puppy you will never know what genes will make out of him. Ok, I am an experienced dog owner so that I can decide which dog is "good" or not. But now a days I will always prefer a rescued dog.
Good night
Christian