Working Kennels

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

To Hanka, from my interpretation of the working requirements in the initial development of the breed, they were supposed to be excellent working dogs. That was the goal.

As far as I did understand their main job was to track down intruders in the border corridor without their handler and not mainly to attack on command. Very different to Schutzhund.

Originally Posted by Hanka

For Lunas mom: you wrote:
Training, of course, counts heavily in how a vlcak looks while working (intense eye on handler, flashy obedience, etc.) but I do think a good vlcak with a good trainer would be able to compete in the same circles and do well.

It is a pitty, you are so far from us. If you will come in future to trip to Czech,( ) I can take you to some training place where train wolfdogs and you can see different between working "normal" wolfdogs and wolfdogs with nature working possibility..... (,quick aport with pleasure, v) There is really different......

I would really like to hear in which real protection situation an intense eye on the handler or a quick aport with pleasure is of any use. I don´t come from this side of sports and can´t make any judgement apart from just looking at the training, but I think I would rather prefer a dog with a quick eye on the dangerous person that will protect me without command when necessary because it understands the difference between fake and reality.
If I want a dog that finds and aports lost things this is a different thing and training and doesn´t require quick aport but mainly concentrated search.

Cause I made the same experiences like Rona

Originally Posted by Rona

I only wanted to draw you attention to the fact that most csv can easily recognize which tasks are authentic and which are not. This may have important implications for the training methods and explain some of the difficulties.

And for me this is much more important for a real working dog but of course a big problem with a sport dog.
I doubt, that the military was selecting for a sports dog.

Ina

[GalomyOak]

I think I can see my own comparison in Bongo. We are training with a Schutzhund group (mostly just for fun - it's free, and I enjoy the positive reinforcement techniques my instructor emphasizes - Bongo thinks it's a great time to play and socialize!). In training, he follows commands, not even a hair of shyness. When the helpers come in with the loud whip, the other young dogs look, back away - and of course some act like normal GSD/Malinois and want to lunge. Bongo looks, then looks to my expression. We he sees I do nothing, he goes to the helper (who has met before), and looks for play - or to cuddle! He will bite the burlap, and hang on, because he knows I want him to, or maybe because he wants to play - but you can clearly see, he sees NO threat. He is very quick with "Aus!"

However, on another day, I was alone with Bongo on the beach - no other people there, or so I thought. I was on my cell phone, and bent over looking for something in my bag while walking. A lone, unfamiliar man (who i didn't see) approached us quickly from behind a dune. Bongo let out the most fierce bark and growl - it startled even me coming from my sweet boy! The man stopped, Bongo never moved his gaze, tail straight up, no sign of backing away. I greeted the man, and when Bongo knew it was okay and I knew the situation and took control, he let the man pet him, rub him, and even laid on his back after about 3 minutes for the man - no tension, no problem. They are so quick to recognize what is real!

[yukidomari]

Thanks for the great posts, Ina, Rona & Marcy.. I enjoyed reading them a lot.

I think as long as we are on the subject of SchH sports, it should be kept in mind that SchH was always meant to be a test of potential ability, a means of selection, and should only be used to measure potential. Oddly (and sadly) SchH titles today have largely become the end goal and the finish line for many.