Hunting with CsV

[hanninadina]

If you are a hunter you can use whatever dog you like for hunting. In last year they opened it from the judges that not only the classical hunting dogs are allowed.

Sylvester did you write under the Pseudonym Sylvester in 2005?

Christian

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

If you are a hunter you can use whatever dog you like for hunting. In last year they opened it from the judges that not only the classical hunting dogs are allowed.

Sylvester did you write under the Pseudonym Sylvester in 2005?

Christian

Yes, he had but for what I saw both accounts where put togheter now.
I dont remember wich was his old nick, maybe the "smartwolf" he wrote in the end, anyway you can see his firsts posts here.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

If you are a hunter you can use whatever dog you like for hunting. In last year they opened it from the judges that not only the classical hunting dogs are allowed.

Sylvester did you write under the Pseudonym Sylvester in 2005?

Christian

in who country? maybe in Deutshland only? in others lands this is ilegal hunting.

[yukidomari]

I'm a little confused as to the DE law everyone is talking about. Are there laws regarding which dogs can be used for hunting in parts/all of Europe?

In JP and in US you can hunt with any dog you want. I know people who even have hunting poodles and mixed breeds (for hunt-related things too like retrieving).

Can someone explain to me a little about the laws regarding hunting dogs?

Silvester, I cannot read German well at all, just a few words here and there. If you can repost some of them in English (I can't assume you know JP? ) I would really appreciate that.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I'm a little confused as to the DE law everyone is talking about. Are there laws regarding which dogs can be used for hunting in parts/all of Europe?

In JP and in US you can hunt with any dog you want. I know people who even have hunting poodles and mixed breeds (for hunt-related things too like retrieving).

Can someone explain to me a little about the laws regarding hunting dogs?

Silvester, I cannot read German well at all, just a few words here and there. If you can repost some of them in English (I can't assume you know JP? ) I would really appreciate that.

In Lithuania there are hunting rules, not a law, just rules, but every diesent hunter should follow them. And these rules say that it is allowed to hunt only with hunting breeds. Anyway, a lot of huntėrs also use mies and even wolf-hyrids (thay are popular - mixes of laikas and wolfs).
These rules are called "Hunting rules in a teritory of Republic of Lithuania" and if you come to our country to hunt you have to follow them too
Here is the original text in Lithuanian http://www.hunter.lt/ist/ist2.htm - hope google translator will help you a lot (sorry, no time to translate that much...)

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

In Lithuania there are hunting rules, not a law, just rules, but every diesent hunter should follow them. And these rules say that it is allowed to hunt only with hunting breeds.

Thanks for the response, Vaiva. Is there a reason to limit the breeds? Not trying to be difficult, just wondering about the rationale behind this. Wouldn't a hunter use whatever dog was most efficient to get the job done?

What qualifies a dog as a hunting breed? Does it matter if the dog is used as a gun-dog or auxiliary service like retriever?

ETA: Just saw your response Silvester - looking forward to hearing about your experiences soon!

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Thanks for the response, Vaiva. Is there a reason to limit the breeds? Not trying to be difficult, just wondering about the rationale behind this. Wouldn't a hunter use whatever dog was most efficient to get the job done?

What qualifies a dog as a hunting breed? Does it matter if the dog is used as a gun-dog or auxiliary service like retriever?

ETA: Just saw your response Silvester - looking forward to hearing about your experiences soon!

when I want hunting i buy hunting breed, when want make IPO buy FCI I groupe or FCI II groupe dog, when want have only nice doggy buy from FCI IX groupe. I think not for funny make this FCI groups.
to hunting you have FCI III-IV, FCI V-VI-VII-VIII groups, and FCI X - i think you can realy big posibility buy nice dog special for this work

[Silvester]

Hi Yukidomari again !

i think it is NOT of public interest here what is allowed by German law or not , or what kind of dog breeds are used legally or illegally for hunting in different countries.

I still have the opinion that this should be mainly a forum for CSV and not a special talk- show for German law or other dog-races.

So I will only write about my experiences with my former Csv here, nothing else.

Of course this must NOT be valid for other Csv, for every dog is an individuum - should be clear, i think !

Ok, now i don´t have the time for longer posting - i will write more tomorrow to answer about your questions in your first posting today, dear Yukidomari.

Nice time to everyone - and bye- bye for today !

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by wolfin

in who country? maybe in Deutshland only? in others lands this is ilegal hunting.

I´m not sure, but I think one can hunt whit any type of dog in Sweden ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Silvester]

Originally Posted by wolfin:

"when I want hunting i buy hunting breed, when want make IPO buy FCI I groupe or FCI II groupe dog, when want have only nice doggy buy from FCI IX groupe. I think not for funny make this FCI groups.
to hunting you have FCI III-IV, FCI V-VI-VII-VIII groups, and FCI X - i think you can realy big posibility buy nice dog special for this work "

Ok, but this has only one little mistake - the dogs did not read about their offical classification !

Everybody knows that a lot of other races have a strong ability and motivation for hunting too, for example the "northern breeds" like Huskies, Malamutes etc. - and our race also !

so long....

[Silvester]

Hello Yukidomari!

I just let translatet the important parts of my posting from 2005 in German forum into English. Here it is:

" To avoid further inquiries and irritations, I would like to inform at start that the following things took place in Poland where one of my relatives is forester - and I am also in the possession of a German hunting license!
I own for now 9 years a Csv dog which I have bought myself as a 8-week puppy in Czechia.
At this time I lived near Dresden from where it is not far to Czechia and Poland and there mine relative (who had never heard something about the race Csv before ) immediately was fascinated, we took my dog already as puppies often with in the district without pursuing, however, some hunting education with him.
A " learning by mimicry " was also not possible, because my relative leads only one dachshund to the hunting work and Seeking and was not this with all ways in the district with from the part. Really we have never taken both dogs together.
Because Mariusz and me were both very much with interest in the natural behavior of my Csv with regard to game, we have always tried not to influence him in this direction -or only as little as possible. (No commands, attaching on tracks or other things of the hound education).
At first it was striking that "Wodan" was very attentive in the district already as a puppy less than 6 months.
from the necessity of the first motivation, making used with shot game to the odor habituation etc. like with hounds usually we needed forborn and she was not also. It was further not normal dog-like that he ran to possibly to the same age (6 months) even in human company in the district only reluctantly about free, uncovered areas. Strangely he showed this behavior in the town, even in parks, in no way.
"Wodan" was interested from the outset very much in wild tracks, slogan and also in all acoustic charms, z. B.the sounds of roe deer game or foxes. (We have led him in the district always without rope).
His natural appeal, i.e. his follow our local change was always enough to hold to him in our nearness. This has changed only after he was more than 13 months old. I have never lured him in the district with the usual commands, but only with quiet, however, sharp "sssssst" - sound as I have done it also often with my earlier hounds (German short hair). (This is more unobtrusive to hear for the dog at close range, nevertheless, well and then driving away the game) at the age of 10.5 months he does not have in a marshy meadow area his first, neither wounded shot nor in any way ill narrow roe deer sly.
Besides, it was remarkable that he applied without experience straight the throaty clutch what I would have seen with no hound at this age and without previous success or training or from which I would have belonged.
From a defense of his prey with our approach - what on the other hand many hounds with first success at first by growling or also snapping he never did against me , neither at that time nor one day later something to note.
However, he has cut the deer immediately and tried to consume and eat so much meat as possible of it. He also still does this occasionally-in spite of more immediately suitable counterpiece education measures-this morning, so that he is not suitable as actual as a hound very reliably .
Besides it proved to teach itself in spite of long trainings as impossible, to him any form of trace sound or view sound, also barking at dead animals when finding he could not learn. His hunting always occurs completely without any noise or barking.
Besides, he barks otherwise in other situations completely like other dogs (even if, however, very little) a wolfish howl I have never heard from him.
Because of this, as a classical hound I cannot use him. (I have one more German short hair bitch of 3.5 years).

Concerning his hunting behavior is to be said that he feels much less than hounds (i.e. tracks follows and with the nose works), but very optically and acoustically is oriented. Although he cannot compete in speed with my Jola, he has with the stack and snatch of pieces substantially more and quicker success than this.
He is really "raubzeugscharf", he strangles i.e. cats, martens or also foxes, if inevitably, in the shortest time.
It would interest me very much to get to know whether there are other holders who lead a Csv as a hound like me and start, I have belonged in my hunter's circles still from nobody, therefore, now this request around answer. "

(Sorry for the translation, it seems to me quite poor. Hope you can understand everything.)

Bye- bye for this time !

[yukidomari]

Hi, Silvester

Thank you for sharing your experiences!

I could roughly understand your translation, and this is what I got out of it:

- Your CSV had some natural inclination for hunting and dispatching game, although not a good hunter's dog because he would also like to eat the game he caught despite training (Can't blame him though!)

- Your CSV Wodan tracked game more with his eyes and ears rather than a typical hound who depend on their nose.

- Your CSV was not as fast as your GSP, yet could dispatch or down animals faster with an efficient throat hold.

- Your CSV did not bay/bark at downed game or during the chase, so that you could not track him much like classical hounds.


Is this roughly right?

[Silvester]

Hi Yukidomari !

Yes, what you are telling as summary is correct .

(May be i should tell more, that we learned him at last NOT beginning to eat his prey !)

I apologize again for the bad translation ! Unfortunately i had not the time for correcting everything or writing the whole posting completely new in English.

[AMERICANI]

Thanks for the translation Silvester

[AMERICANI]

Originally Posted by Silvester

Originally Posted by wolfin:

"when I want hunting i buy hunting breed, when want make IPO buy FCI I groupe or FCI II groupe dog, when want have only nice doggy buy from FCI IX groupe. I think not for funny make this FCI groups.
to hunting you have FCI III-IV, FCI V-VI-VII-VIII groups, and FCI X - i think you can realy big posibility buy nice dog special for this work "

Ok, but this has only one little mistake - the dogs did not read about their offical classification !

Everybody knows that a lot of other races have a strong ability and motivation for hunting too, for example the "northern breeds" like Huskies, Malamutes etc. - and our race also !

so long....

I was talking to someone who raced sled dogs in Alaska at the Iditarod. There was a team of Standard Poodles in the race that did very well, but later the tree huggers protested using them because they were not "sled dogs"... This type of mentality is ludicrous.... many different dogs, EVEN OF THE SAME BREED are good at many different things! That is equally as closed minded as saying Mexicans are only allowed to be gardeners because that is what they are good at! The same people who come up with these ideas are the same who push forward breed specific legislation, and other horrible discriminative laws or "rules".. I guess black Labs are good for duck hunting and yellow are good for Seeing-Eye-Dogs only.. People, these ideologies are harmful, and I urge everyone to be careful of them when voting, taking surveys, commenting on social / animal laws, etc.. Regardless of the country...

Back on track... My dogs have never read any such laws either

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

I was talking to someone who raced sled dogs in Alaska at the Iditarod. There was a team of Standard Poodles in the race that did very well, but later the tree huggers protested using them because they were not "sled dogs"... This type of mentality is ludicrous.... many different dogs, EVEN OF THE SAME BREED are good at many different things!

That's not exactly true.

Mr. Suter did alright with his Poodles in the Iditarod.. But I don't think that any of the Iditarod teams were exclusively Poodles. In 1988 he became the first to finish with a Poodle as lead-dog because he'd put the Poodle in that position about a mile out from the finishing line. In 1990, he finished the Iditarod without a Poodle left (he started with 12 Poodles and 8 Huskies).

The Poodles had been dismissed early on in the race at vet check points, which, trust me, have nothing to do with 'tree huggers' due to safety and health concerns. Poodles do not have an insulating undercoat due to their water-friendly coat, and their feet are not insulated like a Nordic breeds' would be.

Mr. Suter himself said in an 1990 interview, "Those young poodles looked great up to about McGrath, and then they faded really bad."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...4&slug=1111229

Breeds are bred for a reason and whatever that reason is should be their strong point. Of course there are frequently breeds that excel at things outside of their typical use, but it should be done in fun and one should never buy a dog meant for X and expect it to do Y. It is exactly this mentality that leads to wrong expectations of a dog and can lead to surrendering dogs to the shelter. For example, buying a Jack Russel Terrier to be a nice quiet home companion. I'm sure you can find some like this, but this is far from the norm.

I'm sure that Mr. Suter might have found his Poodles to be even better water retrievers.

[AMERICANI]

I met this person at my local kennel club in Texas. I don't remember her name, but she trained sled dogs before returning to Texas and told me the story. She had warned me about the tree-huggers because I mentioned wanting to see my Vlcaks pull a sled. However, as misinformed as I may have been on that notion, I 100% agree about what you are saying, and I suppose some, certain laws are meant for the well-being of everyone, given the level of ignorance of the "general public". If more people were properly educated on certain things then we wouldn't have to worry so much about other issues. I just get really frustrated when I learn of new laws (regardless of the country) involving "certain dogs are for certain things". These are normally the same people who are to blame for the BSL... America used to have separate bathrooms and water fountains for black people.. I cannot see a difference between the two mentalities.