Ugly feminine males...

z Peronówki · 25-01-2010, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf

the first photo in this thread of the CWS looks very very like a bitch, not an ugly dog by any means but come on have a look at photos of males on this site then look at this dog, maybe people dont want to speak against sender of the post?/////

It depend on "what is a CzW MALE for you".

What is a STANDARD - "0" pooint on the scala.
If it is a male dog described int he standard as TYPICAL or a male which has heavy untypical head with wrinkles, hanging lips and eyelids and wrong proportions of the head.

YES, I agree with you that compared to some CzW males Bux is lookong like a female.
NO, "VERY MASCULINE" males are for sure not untypical representants for this breed. For me BUX is a nice Wolfdog, the heavy "VERY MASCULINE" males are just untypical. If you do not believe - compare theit look with the breed standard...

Mikael · 25-01-2010, 17:22

I think the problem is that people really do not read the standard at all or they interpret it the wrong way…This is a part of what the FCI standard say under GENERAL APPEARANCE :
"Movement, coat texture, colour of coat and mask, similar to the wolf."

As I read, it say "SIMILAR" and similar do not mean, has Exactly to look like a wolf !!!

And this is a part of what it say under Coat:
"COLOUR: Yellowish-gray to silver-gray with a charateristic light mask. Light hair also on the underside of the neck and the forechest. Dark gray colour with light mask is permissible."

Yes it say ".Dark gray colour with light mask is permissible."

Now I’m no expert on the standard nor the breed, but I have a feeling owners and breeders are over interpret how much CsV must be light in colour and look like a wolf !!!

Please add more info or correct me if i´m wrong…

But if they are to look exactly like a wolf, I have a feeling they are to look like the Carpatian Wolf

　
　
Very best regards / Mikael

buidelwolf · 25-01-2010, 21:18

Typical or untypical, masculin or feminin, for me Bux is my favorite type of wolfdog!

canislupus · 25-01-2010, 21:36

....absolut beautiful...

I would take him immediately as studdog!!!

Tanja

michaelundinaeichhorn · 25-01-2010, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by canislupus

I would take him immediately as studdog!!!

Tanja

But not for Caya

, since he is more or less genetically identical with her grandfather Koro. And he's dead anyway.

Michael

Monika · 25-01-2010, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

But not for Caya

, since he is more or less genetically identical with her grandfather Koro. And he's dead anyway.

Michael

Standard say too .. General appearance:
Firm type in constitution, more than a medium-sized, rectangular frame.
For me is very funny and sad at the same time that anybody tries to teach the one of creatos of the breed Mr. Hartl
how make correct judgemet and what is important.

Many people here have a problem with the determination of a constitutional type of dog.
Bux was dry constitutional type R1 - and this is considered acceptable - but not desirable extreme!
Constitutional type is not an end in itself! It combines not only the exterior, but also the psychological characteristics of a dog. Wolves live 16 to 18 years in captivity ... if " you " are think that: if the dog will live 8 years and all is OK, I have another view.
Bux is died. How many years?
Adon Irpruš is allive, still he is 15 years old!

Each can breed "type" what he likes. I not have problem accept other opinion I am no fanatic..(I am a Witch I know)

but Standard is clear and the creators knew what they are doing.
In standard minimum height exist but no maximum...
Young Wolf shot died about 2 to 3 years old, December 2009 on the Slovak weighed 46 kg.
photo si here: http://zmolu.csvlcak.cz/displayimage...p&cat=-9&pos=0
Weight euroasian wolves (depending on the age ranges between 40 to 80 kg!)
Do not attempt here to create the illusion that the wolves have weak constitution!

Witch Soukupová

canislupus · 25-01-2010, 22:43

I know he´s dead...

anyway, it´s a pity!!!

Tanja

michaelundinaeichhorn · 25-01-2010, 23:22

Monika dearest victim,

Adon Iprus didn´t have to live at Krotkovsky´s place and you steadily have problems to remember Major Rosik.
I know of offspring of Adon Iprus that didn´t reach age or quality of health of wolves, not to mention the exterieur problems (to prevent witch-gossip, Dak z Rosikova is said to have died of a turned stomach) and not so ideal HD-results. A very good example that to watch only the dog itself doesn´t say anything about it´s breeding quality. And again this is what breeding is about.
But I only took him for an example because you obviously judged him the excellent male on this exhibition, I didn´t want to discredit him, he simply is very unsimilar to an European wolf.

As it was mentioned several times do we discuss a breed of dog not wolves. But the standart clearly states that the ideal is a dog similar to an European wolf not a German Shepherd.
And there is an enormous range between much too heavy build dogs and a weak constitution, I can´t see any weak constitution in Bux and do work with European wolves (that normally don´t reach 80 kg if they are not fat) every day and as a vet can see the results of too heavy or too weak constitutions much too often. I see an athletic, elegant dog that surely had an excellent movement.

Ina

P.S. you shouldnt forget the word black in front of your new name!

solowolf · 25-01-2010, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

It depend on "what is a CzW MALE for you".

What is a STANDARD - "0" pooint on the scala.
If it is a male dog described int he standard as TYPICAL or a male which has heavy untypical head with wrinkles, hanging lips and eyelids and wrong proportions of the head.

YES, I agree with you that compared to some CzW males Bux is lookong like a female.
NO, "VERY MASCULINE" males are for sure not untypical representants for this breed. For me BUX is a nice Wolfdog, the heavy "VERY MASCULINE" males are just untypical. If you do not believe - compare theit look with the breed standard...

i dont run this male down, i give only my oppinion, but you have to admit lots of male dogs now being produced in southern parts of Europe and getting produced for glamour rather than working, and they are getting smaller in size with soft coats the males also becoming fine of bone, some strugling to make 58cm in hight, i have looked at hundreds of photos of CWS on this web site and private sites and there is a definate change comming about and there are lots of size differences in many dogs, they also have great difference in coats, i have seen this happen with lots of breeds over the last 35 yrs, i keep what i call extream photos of the CWS that difffer from the normal ones. they appear everywhere???/ i have read the breed standard, and i have attened many European shows and seen CWS with there tails so far between there legs and looking petrified, yet still winning honours, also i wonder why the change in standard regarding some missing teeth came about ha ha///

michaelundinaeichhorn · 25-01-2010, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf

i dont run this male down, i give only my oppinion, but you have to admit lots of male dogs now being produced in southern parts of Europe and getting produced for glamour rather than working, and they are getting smaller in size with soft coats the males also becoming fine of bone, some strugling to make 58cm in hight, i have looked at hundreds of photos of CWS on this web site and private sites and there is a definate change comming about and there are lots of size differences in many dogs, they also have great difference in coats, i have seen this happen with lots of breeds over the last 35 yrs, i keep what i call extream photos of the CWS that difffer from the normal ones. they appear everywhere???/ i have read the breed standard, and i have attened many European shows and seen CWS with there tails so far between there legs and looking petrified, yet still winning honours, also i wonder why the change in standard regarding some missing teeth came about ha ha///

As you can see on this homepage was Bux born 1994 in a Slovakian kennel and had a hight of 69 cm. None of the bonitated offspring was under the official height.

Ina

solowolf · 25-01-2010, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

As you can see on this homepage was Bux born 1994 in a Slovakian kennel and had a hight of 69 cm. None of the bonitated offspring was under the official height.

Ina

who mentioned anything about this dogs hieght ???

michaelundinaeichhorn · 26-01-2010, 00:01

This is the dog this thread is about.

25-01-2010, 17:22	#2
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	Hmmmmmmmm I think the problem is that people really do not read the standard at all or they interpret it the wrong way…This is a part of what the FCI standard say under GENERAL APPEARANCE : "Movement, coat texture, colour of coat and mask, similar to the wolf." As I read, it say "SIMILAR" and similar do not mean, has Exactly to look like a wolf !!! And this is a part of what it say under Coat: "COLOUR: Yellowish-gray to silver-gray with a charateristic light mask. Light hair also on the underside of the neck and the forechest. Dark gray colour with light mask is permissible." Yes it say ".Dark gray colour with light mask is permissible." Now I’m no expert on the standard nor the breed, but I have a feeling owners and breeders are over interpret how much CsV must be light in colour and look like a wolf !!! Please add more info or correct me if i´m wrong… But if they are to look exactly like a wolf, I have a feeling they are to look like the Carpatian Wolf 　　 Very best regards / Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916

25-01-2010, 21:36	#4
canislupus Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 33165 Ebbinghausen/Paderborn Posts: 400	....absolut beautiful... I would take him immediately as studdog!!! Tanja __________________ Alles wird gut! http://www.mala-bosorka.de

25-01-2010, 22:43	#7
canislupus Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 33165 Ebbinghausen/Paderborn Posts: 400	I know he´s dead... anyway, it´s a pity!!! Tanja __________________ Alles wird gut! http://www.mala-bosorka.de

25-01-2010, 21:18	#3
buidelwolf senior member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 163	Typical or untypical, masculin or feminin, for me Bux is my favorite type of wolfdog!

25-01-2010, 23:22	#8
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Monika dearest victim, Adon Iprus didn´t have to live at Krotkovsky´s place and you steadily have problems to remember Major Rosik. I know of offspring of Adon Iprus that didn´t reach age or quality of health of wolves, not to mention the exterieur problems (to prevent witch-gossip, Dak z Rosikova is said to have died of a turned stomach) and not so ideal HD-results. A very good example that to watch only the dog itself doesn´t say anything about it´s breeding quality. And again this is what breeding is about. But I only took him for an example because you obviously judged him the excellent male on this exhibition, I didn´t want to discredit him, he simply is very unsimilar to an European wolf. As it was mentioned several times do we discuss a breed of dog not wolves. But the standart clearly states that the ideal is a dog similar to an European wolf not a German Shepherd. And there is an enormous range between much too heavy build dogs and a weak constitution, I can´t see any weak constitution in Bux and do work with European wolves (that normally don´t reach 80 kg if they are not fat) every day and as a vet can see the results of too heavy or too weak constitutions much too often. I see an athletic, elegant dog that surely had an excellent movement. Ina P.S. you shouldnt forget the word black in front of your new name!

26-01-2010, 00:01	#12
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	This is the dog this thread is about.