'Just for fun' bonitation in Osieczna (PL)

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Monika

Czech pages disclose no other bonitacion that not organized ... Italian, German, Polish, Belgian, Slovakian .....

Our last italian bonitace is in the list :
http://www.ceskoslovenskyvlcak.cz/in...ace&Itemid=108

[Hanka]

Yes, it was official bonitation organisated under czech club. Members of bonitation comission was: Jana Tomeskova (judge of czech club), Dana Matusincova (leader of czech breeding) and Ivana Stritezska (member of breedcomission).

[Monika]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, it was official bonitation organisated under czech club. Members of bonitation comission was: Jana Tomeskova (judge of czech club), Dana Matusincova (leader of czech breeding) and Ivana Stritezska (member of breedcomission).

Italian bonitacion are organized under the Italian club C.C.L.C and ENCI 2 x per year.
The aforementioned 1 bonitations organized non - member of C.C.L.C. and for what?? ANY bonitacion is necessary for breeding in Italy and in all Europe (except Czech and Slovak) so I don ´t understand still, where is some problem? Only some people need to have some feeling
I am correct and others are wrong....
Can you imagine Italian Bonitations organized non-member of KCHČSV, member of C.C.L.C. for example in Czech in Prague? Yes, like "circus" certainly has, and certainly will in future use: 0)) I doubt that the results KCHCSV will accept as it no accepted the Italian club.
This is called interference in foreign affairs.
Similarly, the Czech club should not interfere in the settlement of Polish breeders !

[secki]

Originally Posted by Monika

"..."

Come on Don Kichot, my little brave soldier, nobody will ever stop you !!
They all are wrong!!

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Our last italian bonitace is in the list :
http://www.ceskoslovenskyvlcak.cz/in...ace&Itemid=108

I dont speak about official italian bonitation, but about this one :
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/164.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/152.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/136.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/119.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/102.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/58.html

[Monika]

Today at the Czech Club website published an apology Monika Soukupova.
Bonitace in Osiezcna (PL) was made correctly and according to all rules.
Point 6. ( Kaufmanová informed sortly) is canceled!
Club website:
http://www.cswolfdog.cz/

Best greetings to all ordinary people who would like to Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and not politics and promote only their personal interests and views....

Monika

[Nebulosa]

Fine, in next dogshow I will call some FCI judges for we make official czech bonitations here also.

[Hanka]

I can copy here only the same like I wrote to my first topics. Czech club has nothing with bonitation in Osieczna. We did not organized it.
I will not change something on my topic.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi, would it be possible to translate the "apology" and the rest?
Especially point 6.

Thanks in advance

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi, would it be possible to translate the "apology" and the rest?
Especially point 6.

I hope Hanka will do this. Anyway someone is lying....

Grzesiek - the person who say that he was counting the inxedes (so it is visible he was in the bonitation comittee - anyway a person who not only took part in the bonitation but is good informed wrote on the Polish version:

Originally Posted by wilczakrew

Karty z Osiecznej sa w języku czeskim, a ja poprosiłem aby mi to samo przepisano [do karty polskiej, przyp. Margo] na moją kartę jako kopia.
Tylko dlatego abym wiedział co jest na tej karcie co.

Translation:
"The card in Osieczna were in Czech language. I asked only to write me the result also on my own [Polish] card as a copy. It was only because I wanted to understand what is written there".

So the person who TOOK part and also was person who organized it and helped the judge get a CZECH card.

Also the Czech versions were send by Ela, as far I understood it...

At the same time Monika told to the club the cards were in Polish language...

MATRIX

[Rona]

Today at the Czech Club website published an apology Monika Soukupova.
Bonitace in Osiezcna (PL) was made correctly and according to all rules.
Point 6. ( Kaufmanová informed sortly) is canceled!

VS

Czech club has nothing with bonitation in Osieczna. We did not organized it.

So has the Czech Club finally formally accepted the bonitation or not? Does anybody know what the truth is? Maybe the President of the Club should write what the official standing of the Czech Club is and this would END this absurd dispute?

[Hanka]

His official answer is on czech version, I try ask him about translating here.

[Monika]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Fine, in next dogshow I will call some FCI judges for we make official czech bonitations here also.

Nebulosa, nobody sais that bonitacion was under Czech Club! But according to Czech rules, yes - judgement of exterier, measurement, character test, shooting. The results are accepted Czech Club like others strange bonitacion.... Italien, Belgian, German, France for example - only info more about dogs from countries where the breeders do not need it for breeding! Everybody can be organizators bonitacion and they DON´T NEED REQUEST FOR PERMISSION CZECH CLUB!

Read and translate well Mr. Skoupý. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...70959&langid=1

BUt All cards from Osiezna Club received and has them!

Why you have problem with this, still?? Because Margo not was organizator?
The people made it optionally, they wanted to have some info more about their dogs! They didn ´t need this!
Why you must to have problem with everything??
Your dogs has some bonitacion official or unofficial?? NO? And you breed with them?

I made a lot of bonitacion and my the signature is on many bonitacion cards official Czech and unofficail too.

Reset and cancel them from wolfdog. org database, please. Thanks.

Monika

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Monika

Nebulosa, nobody sais that bonitacion was under Czech Club! But according to Czech rules, yes - judgement of exterier, measurement, character test, shooting. The results are accepted Czech Club like others strange bonitacion.... Italien, Belgian, German, France for example - only info more about dogs from countries where the breeders do not need it for breeding! Everybody can be organizators bonitacion and they DON´T NEED REQUEST FOR PERMISSION CZECH CLUB!

Nebulosa - what Monika is trying to explain to you: you do not need ANY rules.. Invite your friend who is a FCI judge for a grill party or a beer and make a bonitation. Make some measurements, shoot two times, and make some kind of character test... And the Czech Club will accpept it... If you will invite two other friends to the comittee it will be much more professional than the bonitation in Osieczna...


Sorry Monika but in this case the bonitations are no more needed in this breed because they are for NOTHING. If anyone can make ANY kind of bonitation according ANY rules and it will be accepted as VALID bonitation than why ANY club should invite you or any of the club judges? They don't need you... They can use any judge and make the bonitation according their own rules - prepare their own cards, and own regulation. Nobody must accept it, everybody can make measurements....

Sorry but you are starting again a new PARODY inside this breed... After registration of pseudo-wolfdogs and pseudo-club now you promoting pseudo-bonitation....

[Monika]

The bonitacion in Osiezna is on same level for Czech Club, like bonitacion in Pózno, for example for better understanding.

I not understand well Margo ´s " brainwashing " but this is normal for me.

Bonitacion in Osiezna was made by Czech Judge and keep Czech rules.

Margo is last person, who can to say if the bonitacion valid or not.

Strangres bonitacion for Czech club not are valid for memebers of Czech Club, only. The member of Czech Club can pass bonitacion in Osiezna :0) Pózno or Serramazzoni but this bonitacion isn´ t enough for czech breeding!
Czech owner must to pass for breeding Czech KCHCSV bonitacion, only!


And strangers NOT NEED this FOR BREEDING! This acction is OPTIONAL!
You go with your dogs on bonitacion when you want, only and when you think, he can pass well it.... And you breed CSWs without bonitacion, too!

SO what happened Margo, somebody took the toys?

I know the rules and my rights very well.

Who goes those rules you only .. you have no right to say that bonitacion are valid and the dog is good stud dog, or not!
Everyone can read, knows where the bonitacion done and by whom. There are also videos. Just make a valid entry, and without comment, if you want to inform correctly.
Bonitace can be never exactly the same. The conditions are different, Judge, rules and helper .. implementation. Slovak temperament test is another test ... Italy is different too....But this is not problem, for me surely.
Please let to say the Judge his opinion.
Everyone can read and knows where and by whom was the bonitacion done this is same like different HD results!

We can read and nobody need your explanation! Thanks!

Monika

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Monika

I made a lot of bonitacion and my the signature is on many bonitacion cards official Czech and unofficail too.

Reset and cancel them from wolfdog. org database, please. Thanks.

Sorry but it is a very strange that an FCI judge have no idea what is a RULE. If you judge during a FCI dog show the results are accepted. If you make a dog show at you home you can even give a "World Winner" title to all dogs of your friends - but the titles EVEN GIVEN BY A OFFICIAL FCI JUDGE are worth NOTHING in this case.

Even child would get the difference...

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Monika

The bonitacion in Osiezna is on same level for Czech Club, like bonitacion in Pózno, for example for better understanding.

I not understand well Margo ´s " brainwashing " but this is normal for me.

Bonitacion in Osiezna was made by Czech Judge and keep Czech rules.

Margo is last person, who can to say if the bonitacion valid or not.

Strangres bonitacion for Czech club not are valid for memebers of Czech Club, only. The member of Czech Club can pass bonitacion in Osiezna :0) Pózno or Serramazzoni but this bonitacion isn´ t enough for czech breeding!
Czech owner must to pass for breeding Czech KCHCSV bonitacion, only!


And strangers NOT NEED this FOR BREEDING! This acction is OPTIONAL!
You go with your dogs on bonitacion when you want, only and when you think, he can pass well it.... And you breed CSWs without bonitacion, too!

SO what happened Margo, somebody took the toys?

I know the rules and my rights very well.

Who goes those rules you only .. you have no right to say that bonitacion are valid and the dog is good stud dog, or not!
Everyone can read, knows where the bonitacion done and by whom. There are also videos. Just make a valid entry, and without comment, if you want to inform correctly.
Bonitace can be never exactly the same. The conditions are different, Judge, rules and helper .. implementation. Slovak temperament test is another test ... Italy is different too....But this is not problem, for me surely.
Please let to say the Judge his opinion.
Everyone can read and knows where and by whom was the bonitacion done this is same like different HD results!

We can read and nobody need your explanation! Thanks!

Monika

For me such lack of knowledge in UNIMAGINABLE for a (so called) experienced breeder and FCI JUDGE! What I see here is PURE EMBARRASSMENT.

1. LIE:
Do not compare Osieczna with bonitation in Pozna, France or Italy. Because Osieczna was made according not existing rules (NOT CZECH). The other were made STRICTLY keeping to slovakian or czech rules.

2. LIE:
Bonitation in Osieczna do not keep to the Czech rules. You, FCI and CLUB JUDGE, should know that the regulation DO NOT SAY that the bonitation is "something what happend when dog is measured, character is checked and someone is shooting". NO!!! So before you will start to write us another fairy-tales READ FINALLY THE REGULATION OF YOUR OWN CLUB!:
http://www.cswolfdog.cz/index.php?vi...tent&Itemid=75

*** "Bonitace jsou pořádány v souladu s ročním plánem chovatelských akcí klubu a jejich termín musí být uveden v oběžníku klubu. Místo a datum konání bonitace navrhuje pobočka a schvaluje je výbor chovatelského klubu."
Translation: Bonitation must be included in the year-long plan and the places must be listed in the club bulletin. Place and date is suggested by the branch of the club and approved by the board of the club.

NOBODY knew about the bonitation in Osieczna. It was not listed - nor on the web pages neither in the club newpaper.
CONCLUSION: The bonitation was not made by the Czech Club.

*** "Bonitační komise je nejméně tří členná. Tvoří ji: posuzovatel pro exteriér, poradce chovu a vedoucí bonitace."
Translation: bonitation comittee is made up at last of three people. It is made by: judge for exterier, breeding comittee member and person leading the bonitation.

In the bonitation in Osieczna was ONLY YOU. Where (who) was the breeding comittee member? Who was the person leading the bonitation. On the cards there are only your signs.
CONCLUSION: There was no VALID bonitation comittee.

*** During the club conference which took place on 14.6.2008 since 2009 the bvonitation code MUST include the indexes.

If you want to make bonitations you should READ and KNOW the regulations because NON of the bonitation you made abroad have it. Also the bonitation codes from Osieczna are not valid according the Czech rules...

CONCLUSION: There was no VALID bonitation codes.



DO YOU REALLY WANT TO CINVINCE ANYONE THAT THE BONITATION IN OSIECZNA WAS ACCORDING THE CZECH RULES? DO YOU REALLY WANT STILL TO DELUDE AS. Do you think anyone will believe you?!?!




There is more dear FCI judge.... The results of the bonitation in Osieczna were written bonitation cards singed with "Klub Hodowcow Czechoslowackiego Wilczaka" (translation: Club of the breeders of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog). WE DO NOT HAVE ANY FCI CLUB for CzW in Poland. So the club listed there is for 100% NON FCI. You, dear FCI judge, you should know IT IS VORBIDDEN for FCI judges to judge during NON FCI meeetings... The cards are FAKE - singed by NON-FCI (or non-existing) CLUB!!!

If the club listed there is real - could you be also so nice to give us the names of the people who made this FAKE club so we could hold them responsible for it?

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Monika

Nebulosa, nobody sais that bonitacion was under Czech Club! But according to Czech rules, yes - judgement of exterier, measurement, character test, shooting. The results are accepted Czech Club like others strange bonitacion....

I also dont say that the bonitation was under Czech club, but the fakt that "if" it was accepted as official by them, its the question.
For long time in some countries, breeders, clubs and owners had pay a lot for bring judges from Czech or Slovakia for judge a bonitation and have its code as official, and now we all know its not needed anymore, so I can make my own bonitation here also and it will be much valuated as the Czech one.

Originally Posted by Monika

Why you have problem with this, still?? Because Margo not was organizator?

Whats difference will make if it was Margo or Santa Claus?
If both follow the rules we all wait its really no problem, but when we have a bonitation in different way, with common FCI judge and without club or breed comission, so the things start to change and of course I will start to show more interess, as I want to have bonitated dogs here.
We all imagined that the bonitation need to follow some specific rules and be accepted before been done by the club for be considerated official and published as it, in this case we would have some costs for bring a recognized and accepted judge by the club, and make everything according Czech or Slovakian rules, as they wish, now we discouvered that its not needed anymore, so...

Originally Posted by Monika

Why you must to have problem with everything??
Your dogs has some bonitacion official or unofficial?? NO? And you breed with them?

I really have problems with nothing, principally in when we talk about rules as I follow "all rules of our club" and much more than it
By the rules of our kennel club we also dont need HD or ED results, we only need a pedigree female and mate it with other pedigree male of the same breed. Do you think it that right to do?
I dont make my dogs pass exams only because the clubs will or because rules, I do it because I want select the breed and of course like all bredders I want show my work for the breed lovers.
But I wondered...
I ever found bonitation simply a bright idea when it has been done properly, but seems that now it turns only in ego war for show "my dog have P1 your not" even if this P1 is a lie
Then, normaly breeders try to respect the origin countries will, and if you all do bonitation, so its because its needed and all others countries will try to do it also, so its normal that I want my dogs bonitated like all Czech or Slovakian dogs.
Even, someone already dared to ask why my dogs have no bonitations, so for avoid the common bad talk wich exist in all breeding community, I also want to make official bonitation, recognized by at least one of the orign countries.
That's why I wonder about this topic.

[Hanka]

Margo, my english is not so perfect for correct translating from czech to english.
I think is stupid to give on english forum some link of czech text without translating, if somebody wants to tell something to english speaking people......