Norwegian ban on SW and CzW

XaedasKSP · 20-12-2009, 16:23

Yes I do see what others have responded but you can also see in those responses like for example Mikaels ones that they got political views on the "left side".....they were also based on the fact that people thought it could be dangerous for the dog that is not allowed in Norway to live here.

And your response came after I said that I resign from breaking any laws etc. so it shall not be dangerous for the dog and that I am going to get a SW instead of CSV. For example on the polish forum after I wrote this I havent got any negative reply just positive replies and congratulations for the right decision and finding a Saarloos that I can get. I dont know if this might be caused by the fact that most people in Poland different to those in Scandinavia dont like the "left side" of politics (since many people in Poland have experienced the "dark side" of the left side on their own skin) but I shall not discuss the politics here since its not allowed. But I must be allowed to express that I think that most of the negative replies against me here were based more on the political point of view "that made me unsuited" in their eyes to own a wolfdog.

Either way I had to respond to those "attacks". Now I shall get over to the wolfdog part of the forum and rather create an informative thread about the SW and where people can find the breeders so they wont need to search as much as I did to find a SW breeder who got litters or is planning litters soon. And also get some more info about the race that is legal wolfdog alternative in Norway + general info since I think many people only know about the CSV and dont have any idea that there do exist another wolfdog race that from the character description can maybe be even more suitable as pure "familiy dog".

I wish you good luck with trying to lift the CSV ban in Norway and I hope that if it get lifted after the government change in 2013 I will not get banned for explaining the political right-left reason of it in a thread that is about the law and as we all know law is made by politics.

Ahh and since you added something to your post I have to respond to this too (I hope I dont get banned for answering politics with politics), well if you really wasnt on the left side of the platform as you suggest here then you would probably never tell everyone that this case had nothing to do with the left or right of politics. Since its clearly expressed even on your homepage that it was SV who pushed on to get the ban (probably traded it off for their votes on some other case that the other parties wanted to achieve) after the ban wasnt achieved in the first voting in the "Storting". Every political party must be responsible for what laws they are pushing on to achieve and it isnt possible to say. "Yes they made the law become reality, but you cant say its their political view".

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 17:05

You still don't understand, do you?

Why do you think there a no sw breeders in Norway anymore. Why are sw seldom seen on Norwegian dog shows? Why are Norwegian sw owners not seen on Norwegian foras and why do they keep a very low profile not to say beeing totally absent in any debate regarding dogs and dog law? Why do you think two sws were poisoned inside the owners dog yard?

Who will ever sell a wolfdog to an unexperienced owner not knowing what kind of trouble he or she might face?
--
po

XaedasKSP · 20-12-2009, 17:23

If you read my post carefully then you would read that there is a norwegian breeder of Saarlooses that will start breeding them with first litter planned for February 2010 and there will be at least 2 litters in 2010 and there are already 11 reserved pups even before any pup is born. So there will soon be many more Saarlooses in Norway. So I dunno who dont understand....

I shall not buy my SW there since I found a breeder outside Norway who have already got a litter of SW that are already born and I reserved a beautiful pup there that I will import with the allowance from "mattilsynet" when it becomes 8 weeks. In addition everything will be much much cheaper, so I shall not wait on the litter in Norway then.

As for the attacks against dogs, well a "villager" (dunno how bonde is translated to english, my bad) shot someones hunting dog just because the dog ran over his potato field where he sometimes had his sheep. So all dogs can get in danger in Norway if the owner let the dog run without leash in the city or close to any human settlement. Its no special crusade against SWs here.

As for my dogexperience well maybe you are a clearvoyant so you know exactly what experience people have with dogs even when they dont say anything about it. But in the case you are not, then I would like to say that I have in 14 years had experience with a German Sheperd that my family had, so I am not unexperienced. But of course I dont claim to be a "dog master" like many of you probably are or think so. Therefore I shall be very careful with my dog and always keep an eye on him when outside of my possesion and hold it on a leash even in the forest close to my place. Only in uninhabited mountain terrain (far, far away from potatofields and "villagers") I shall let the dog run without the leash or on my private possesion.

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

If you read my post carefully then you would read that there is a norwegian breeder of Saarlooses that will start breeding them with first litter planned for February 2010 and there will be at least 2 litters in 2010 and there are already 11 reserved pups even before any pup is born. So there will soon be many more Saarlooses in Norway. So I dunno who dont understand....

I'm fully aware of that and also fully aware of what this breeder is facing.

Quote:

As for my dogexperience well maybe you are a clearvoyant so you know exactly what experience people have with dogs even when they dont say anything about it. But in the case you are not, then I would like to say that I have in 14 years had experience with a German Sheperd that my family had, so I am not unexperienced. .

Beeing a student aged 23 by now I fully understand your expertice, Myself I've been owner, dog trainer and rescue dog trainer of working breed GSD's and Belgian Sheperds close to 40 years.. But a csv is no German shepherd or a Belgian Shepherd. Neither is a saarloos.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 20-12-2009, 18:11

I do know it perfectly that neither a Saarloos or a CSV is a German Sheperd (although they do actually have som GSD blood :P). And as for the dogexperience well your dogexperience is of course very long and probably you know what to do with your dogs. But still when you got your first CSV it still wasnt a german sheperd or a belgian sheperd that you have worked with before.

So there have to be the first time with a Saarloos or with a CSV, cause if CSV/SW experience were required to own a SW or CSV then there would be no new owners of those dogs, and even you wouldnt get the one you have :P So I think it is possible to own a SW and suceed with it. It will just require much carefullness and time spent with the dog and teaching the dog in the manner that SW breeder advise.

Ofc. someone who has 40 years experience is better suited to own such a dog but I really doubt if such long experience is required to own a SW or CSV

Ah and just a small correction I am a student aged 21...but I dont think age have something to do with ability to handle a SW, I think that the most importand thing is the amount of time that people have to take care of the dog and to teach it the right behaviour in a proper way. Right now I am trying to get all the possible literature upon Saarlooses and how to properly teach a Saarloos the correct behaviour. Since I guess it will be a harder task than teaching a German Sheperd.

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 18:36

IMHO you are still missing the most important matter. I don't write about what is possible in training but of peoples attitude. As a devoted dog trainer you can achieve almost anything you want but you can't change someones prejustice and attitude against the breeds. That's what caused the ban on the csv and pushing the sw to the edge of it. The more wolfdogs and more inexperienced owners overseeing that fact - the more certain a ban on the breed may be foreseen.
--
po

20-12-2009, 16:23	#1
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Yes I do see what others have responded but you can also see in those responses like for example Mikaels ones that they got political views on the "left side".....they were also based on the fact that people thought it could be dangerous for the dog that is not allowed in Norway to live here. And your response came after I said that I resign from breaking any laws etc. so it shall not be dangerous for the dog and that I am going to get a SW instead of CSV. For example on the polish forum after I wrote this I havent got any negative reply just positive replies and congratulations for the right decision and finding a Saarloos that I can get. I dont know if this might be caused by the fact that most people in Poland different to those in Scandinavia dont like the "left side" of politics (since many people in Poland have experienced the "dark side" of the left side on their own skin) but I shall not discuss the politics here since its not allowed. But I must be allowed to express that I think that most of the negative replies against me here were based more on the political point of view "that made me unsuited" in their eyes to own a wolfdog. Either way I had to respond to those "attacks". Now I shall get over to the wolfdog part of the forum and rather create an informative thread about the SW and where people can find the breeders so they wont need to search as much as I did to find a SW breeder who got litters or is planning litters soon. And also get some more info about the race that is legal wolfdog alternative in Norway + general info since I think many people only know about the CSV and dont have any idea that there do exist another wolfdog race that from the character description can maybe be even more suitable as pure "familiy dog". I wish you good luck with trying to lift the CSV ban in Norway and I hope that if it get lifted after the government change in 2013 I will not get banned for explaining the political right-left reason of it in a thread that is about the law and as we all know law is made by politics. Ahh and since you added something to your post I have to respond to this too (I hope I dont get banned for answering politics with politics), well if you really wasnt on the left side of the platform as you suggest here then you would probably never tell everyone that this case had nothing to do with the left or right of politics. Since its clearly expressed even on your homepage that it was SV who pushed on to get the ban (probably traded it off for their votes on some other case that the other parties wanted to achieve) after the ban wasnt achieved in the first voting in the "Storting". Every political party must be responsible for what laws they are pushing on to achieve and it isnt possible to say. "Yes they made the law become reality, but you cant say its their political view". Last edited by XaedasKSP; 20-12-2009 at 16:30. Reason: Per Olav added something to his post

20-12-2009, 17:05	#2
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	You still don't understand, do you? Why do you think there a no sw breeders in Norway anymore. Why are sw seldom seen on Norwegian dog shows? Why are Norwegian sw owners not seen on Norwegian foras and why do they keep a very low profile not to say beeing totally absent in any debate regarding dogs and dog law? Why do you think two sws were poisoned inside the owners dog yard? Who will ever sell a wolfdog to an unexperienced owner not knowing what kind of trouble he or she might face? -- po __________________ Per Olav Last edited by Per Olav; 20-12-2009 at 17:18.

20-12-2009, 18:36	#6
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	IMHO you are still missing the most important matter. I don't write about what is possible in training but of peoples attitude. As a devoted dog trainer you can achieve almost anything you want but you can't change someones prejustice and attitude against the breeds. That's what caused the ban on the csv and pushing the sw to the edge of it. The more wolfdogs and more inexperienced owners overseeing that fact - the more certain a ban on the breed may be foreseen. -- po Last edited by Per Olav; 20-12-2009 at 18:52.

20-12-2009, 17:23	#3
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	If you read my post carefully then you would read that there is a norwegian breeder of Saarlooses that will start breeding them with first litter planned for February 2010 and there will be at least 2 litters in 2010 and there are already 11 reserved pups even before any pup is born. So there will soon be many more Saarlooses in Norway. So I dunno who dont understand.... I shall not buy my SW there since I found a breeder outside Norway who have already got a litter of SW that are already born and I reserved a beautiful pup there that I will import with the allowance from "mattilsynet" when it becomes 8 weeks. In addition everything will be much much cheaper, so I shall not wait on the litter in Norway then. As for the attacks against dogs, well a "villager" (dunno how bonde is translated to english, my bad) shot someones hunting dog just because the dog ran over his potato field where he sometimes had his sheep. So all dogs can get in danger in Norway if the owner let the dog run without leash in the city or close to any human settlement. Its no special crusade against SWs here. As for my dogexperience well maybe you are a clearvoyant so you know exactly what experience people have with dogs even when they dont say anything about it. But in the case you are not, then I would like to say that I have in 14 years had experience with a German Sheperd that my family had, so I am not unexperienced. But of course I dont claim to be a "dog master" like many of you probably are or think so. Therefore I shall be very careful with my dog and always keep an eye on him when outside of my possesion and hold it on a leash even in the forest close to my place. Only in uninhabited mountain terrain (far, far away from potatofields and "villagers") I shall let the dog run without the leash or on my private possesion.

20-12-2009, 18:11	#5
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	I do know it perfectly that neither a Saarloos or a CSV is a German Sheperd (although they do actually have som GSD blood :P). And as for the dogexperience well your dogexperience is of course very long and probably you know what to do with your dogs. But still when you got your first CSV it still wasnt a german sheperd or a belgian sheperd that you have worked with before. So there have to be the first time with a Saarloos or with a CSV, cause if CSV/SW experience were required to own a SW or CSV then there would be no new owners of those dogs, and even you wouldnt get the one you have :P So I think it is possible to own a SW and suceed with it. It will just require much carefullness and time spent with the dog and teaching the dog in the manner that SW breeder advise. Ofc. someone who has 40 years experience is better suited to own such a dog but I really doubt if such long experience is required to own a SW or CSV Ah and just a small correction I am a student aged 21...but I dont think age have something to do with ability to handle a SW, I think that the most importand thing is the amount of time that people have to take care of the dog and to teach it the right behaviour in a proper way. Right now I am trying to get all the possible literature upon Saarlooses and how to properly teach a Saarloos the correct behaviour. Since I guess it will be a harder task than teaching a German Sheperd.