Norwegian ban on SW and CzW

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

So dont worry I could get a real wolf imported if I just paid enough to buy a wolfcub and register it as a mix in Poland for example...but since I am responsible I dont want or need a real wolf and a CSV will do perfectly.

My advice is don't ever think of it. Never. For your info a false pedigree or papers won't help. Last year a number of Amstaff's was taken into custody on the police's suspicion of illegally imported with falsefied pedigrees or papers showing the dogs were mixes of other breeds but Amstaff. Some were put to death, other are still in custody at the expence of the owners. If you really want to improve the situation of the csv in Norway there are others ways of doing it - not by acting as an irresponsible owner for the sake of your own.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 13:49

Well what neither you or Per Olav understand although he should do since he lives in Norway and claims to know the politics very well is that this whole "try to change the law" thing is doomed to failure or to at least take 30 years to complete as long socialists rule.

Havent you heard about the last case in Norway about the biodiesel tax? Well the SV(ine) socialist party said they are against the tax while they signed the budget with the tax included and then afterwards they said they are against the tax and just signed wrong....but what happend? "Well we are sorry we cant change anything right now even as we are against the tax, we have signed already so there is no way back the tax is law now" that kind of answer.......or just look at the cars it took like 8 years to change ONE thing changing the tax from the volume tax to a CO2 tax and this was something important that the socialists actually "worked" with.

So how much time do you thing they will care about the dog cause and how much will they care to change anything even if you convince them that you are right ? Socialist beaurocracy is really a very big machine, thats hard to change. They will just tell you something like: "We are sorry that we banned this dog, maybe this shouldnt have been done so fast but there were people telling us different things etc. But now we have already signed the ban so we cant do anything about it right now come back next year and we will see what we can do"

Then you come next year and the answer is: "Well we wanted to legalize the race but then someone came to us and told us to do not since its dangerous so we must look a little more on the info to take the decision, we are really sorry etc."

And thats the socialist way of solving the problem, the result is that you can wait forever and get no result, while people who want to have such a dog can only get it by using the socialist own weapon and getting papers that the dog is a mix. As beaurocracy lovers socialists are happy when someone show them a paper with a stamp no matter what is written there as long as the paper got a true stamp from proper authority.....

People cant just sit and wait and hope that in 2013 it will be enough with those 30 000 votes that we got more in the election in 2009 than the socialist side will be enough to get more mandates in the Storting. I want to have a CSV and no socialist shall be able to tell me that I cant....if all people followed the law then there would be communism in whole eastern europe today, and not a single jew in europe would have survived holocaust. Good things are results of walking around stupid laws made by socialists, commies or national socialists.

Maybe if there were 1000 CSVs in Norway registered as mix then some beaurocrates would care to use their time to change the documents and allow CSV in Norway......since I guess that the populistic socialists wouldnt dare to put 1000 dogs into a gaschamber and lose the votes of anyone who likes animals in Norway.....

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 14:30

Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law.

And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not "The Breaking the Law and Order Party".

A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the party's political opponents apes and swine.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 16:01

Well most debatants on for example sol.no or else places say SV(in) and AP(e) since the hate of socialism have grown to new levels between people who have had to tolerate socialist government for really long period of time and their missed decisions. Ofc. we dont do it officially in debates.

And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes. Its ofcourse also possible to make small changes via lobbies etc. But if it takes like 8 years to do a small change to the car tax law, and if it is possible that "mistakes" like signing an extra biodiesel tax law happen. Then how can you believe that this socialist government will care to use their time on changing the law upon dogs, the best proof of this is that you said they made the dog forbidden in 2003 or something like that and now there is 2009. And what have you achieved in those years ? And how can you tell that you will achieve anything more in the next 5 years if the government doesnt change?

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes

Just one last comment

A law might be changed at any time. You don't need an election of doing that. No law is changed by elections but on demand when the law obviously is based on misleading, false, failing or lack of background information, is outdated according to changes in public affairs etc - this fact is learned by every pupil at primary school stage. Reading your arguments I feel ashamed of beeing a country fellow man of you.

Rona · 28-11-2009, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

Reading your arguments I feel ashamed of beeing a country fellow man of you.

Per Olav, I fully emphatize with you. I feel ashamed of being a nation fellow of his.

Nebulosa · 28-11-2009, 18:06

And I fell ashame to know he have the same age as me.

After that I will start to hide this information.

PS: He hates comunists so much, but he wants a "comunist" dog breed... what paradox

michaelundinaeichhorn · 28-11-2009, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law.

And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not the "Breaking the Law and Order Party".

A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the partys political opponents apes and swine.
--
po

And I would like to add some suggestions: There are more important animal issues in your country than if you are able to keep a CSW to show of, for example wolf-hunting and whale-hunting out of questionable reasons.

A good thing to spend your political energy on, if you change the countries point of view on wolves you will very likely find it very easy to change the point of view on wolfdogs. But of course you won´t have any personal profit out of it and won´t be very popular especially in conservative groups.

I fully agree with Rona, an intelligent dog needs an intelligent owner, you shouldn´t get yourself one in the moment.

Ina

28-11-2009, 14:30	#3
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law. And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not "The Breaking the Law and Order Party". A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the party's political opponents apes and swine. -- po Last edited by Per Olav; 28-11-2009 at 15:54.

28-11-2009, 18:06	#7
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	And I fell ashame to know he have the same age as me. After that I will start to hide this information. PS: He hates comunists so much, but he wants a "comunist" dog breed... what paradox __________________

28-11-2009, 13:49	#2
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Well what neither you or Per Olav understand although he should do since he lives in Norway and claims to know the politics very well is that this whole "try to change the law" thing is doomed to failure or to at least take 30 years to complete as long socialists rule. Havent you heard about the last case in Norway about the biodiesel tax? Well the SV(ine) socialist party said they are against the tax while they signed the budget with the tax included and then afterwards they said they are against the tax and just signed wrong....but what happend? "Well we are sorry we cant change anything right now even as we are against the tax, we have signed already so there is no way back the tax is law now" that kind of answer.......or just look at the cars it took like 8 years to change ONE thing changing the tax from the volume tax to a CO2 tax and this was something important that the socialists actually "worked" with. So how much time do you thing they will care about the dog cause and how much will they care to change anything even if you convince them that you are right ? Socialist beaurocracy is really a very big machine, thats hard to change. They will just tell you something like: "We are sorry that we banned this dog, maybe this shouldnt have been done so fast but there were people telling us different things etc. But now we have already signed the ban so we cant do anything about it right now come back next year and we will see what we can do" Then you come next year and the answer is: "Well we wanted to legalize the race but then someone came to us and told us to do not since its dangerous so we must look a little more on the info to take the decision, we are really sorry etc." And thats the socialist way of solving the problem, the result is that you can wait forever and get no result, while people who want to have such a dog can only get it by using the socialist own weapon and getting papers that the dog is a mix. As beaurocracy lovers socialists are happy when someone show them a paper with a stamp no matter what is written there as long as the paper got a true stamp from proper authority..... People cant just sit and wait and hope that in 2013 it will be enough with those 30 000 votes that we got more in the election in 2009 than the socialist side will be enough to get more mandates in the Storting. I want to have a CSV and no socialist shall be able to tell me that I cant....if all people followed the law then there would be communism in whole eastern europe today, and not a single jew in europe would have survived holocaust. Good things are results of walking around stupid laws made by socialists, commies or national socialists. Maybe if there were 1000 CSVs in Norway registered as mix then some beaurocrates would care to use their time to change the documents and allow CSV in Norway......since I guess that the populistic socialists wouldnt dare to put 1000 dogs into a gaschamber and lose the votes of anyone who likes animals in Norway.....

28-11-2009, 16:01	#4
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Well most debatants on for example sol.no or else places say SV(in) and AP(e) since the hate of socialism have grown to new levels between people who have had to tolerate socialist government for really long period of time and their missed decisions. Ofc. we dont do it officially in debates. And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes. Its ofcourse also possible to make small changes via lobbies etc. But if it takes like 8 years to do a small change to the car tax law, and if it is possible that "mistakes" like signing an extra biodiesel tax law happen. Then how can you believe that this socialist government will care to use their time on changing the law upon dogs, the best proof of this is that you said they made the dog forbidden in 2003 or something like that and now there is 2009. And what have you achieved in those years ? And how can you tell that you will achieve anything more in the next 5 years if the government doesnt change?