Mixes in 'La Louve Blanche' kennel?

hanninadina · 24-11-2008, 20:40

Frankie, C`Pouchka, nice looking, but I can not understand too, that Merlin und Ossa should be the parents...?! I remember I think it was a good 1 1/2 year ago maybe a bit more, that you did publish in french homepage for selling dogs the first litter from Merlin and Ossa. But the funny thing was that you took pictures from american wolfdogs with brown coat like C´´Pouchka has and white mask from wolf. It has been hybrids but not Merlin and Ossa. And some people ask you and you remember what, it took 1 day and you took the pictures from the net and did not answer the questions what kind of dogs these were. I think there is here in english forum a thread. If I have time I will search. And when I see now C´Pouchka for me she looks like not Merlin was father but one of these hybrids. What do you say?

I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent.

Christian

owner of the sister to Merlin, Myla Crying Wolf

hanninadina · 24-11-2008, 20:53

I just notice that the thread is right on top Frankies kennel and I wrote on 21.1.2007. But it was another pic with two hybrids standing right beside a hut. Not the mother with new puppies.

Christian

furyos · 24-11-2008, 21:10

hi christian .. yes y remember yu

...how are yu ?.... y know that c'pouchka is darker than blue or blazy but in "B" litter y have 1 male dark too(balrog )and ...ckinai in same litter is clearly and is the brother(go to database to see) .. yu cando test blood dna ..if yu want ... just before this topic lupis say y have husky blood and saarloos blood and now yu say y have usa hybrid wolf

... good things because it'will be great to have this look for my kennel ... it's a real honnor and compliment if yu think that .. but sorry if y couldn't satisfy yur curiosity in the good way ....... y hope yu wait very nice litter from miky ..(y love him too) and y do with velaskez (induk's son)a marriage ... y hope so.... future can say if y go in a good way ... best regards .. frank

Nebulosa · 24-11-2008, 21:34

Botis and Balrog only have silly differences in collor, they're pretty similar in body and are tipical CzW, all these differences we can wait for a normal litter, different of the litters mentioned here, where we see a suposed CzW with googles and other things that turn these dogs atipical even for the breed.
if you find a "honour" someone think your dogs are mixes, I think you need studie a little bit about " breed" and "selection" as actualise yourself about the problems CzW is passing.

lupis · 01-12-2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent.

Thank you for explanation. Now i see it is true what i see in photos and what also breeders in italy say about furyos litters. Because if people in germany see dogs of this litter and say dogs are not real czech wolfdog and german breeder is sure furyos make mixes for me it is clear too and i have no more question

Backman · 02-12-2008, 10:59

HI LUPIS

on the picture of Dream Wolf above, he is about 4 months old, so I do not think it is the right time of dogs age to judge what he will be like as grown up. so when he is all grown up and you still think he looks like a husky..*hihi* you can tell me..
Who are you? who are you to judge my dogs, I love my dogs,they are the best I have!
And I trust Frank, and just to prove you are all wrong I will take DNA test to prove Crying Wolf Volos is father to Dream Wolf.
I think this is really ridicoulus.
Take good care of your own dogs instead and give them all your time, and not put all your energy surfing on the net to blame other breeders.

Jenny ,Finland

Wolfsirius · 02-12-2008, 16:20

Maybe in this foto above C'Pouchka have something similarity in exterior with Vorss? http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7424

-Suski

mijke · 02-12-2008, 22:29

It is indeed very similar

Of course everybody can see the differences in the C litter.
But…… theoretical it is always possible to have different types in one litter.
Also in this data base you can find more examples of different types in one litter

see for example Iary and Icky:

Nebulosa · 03-12-2008, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backman

And I trust Frank, and just to prove you are all wrong I will take DNA test to prove Crying Wolf Volos is father to Dream Wolf.
I think this is really ridicoulus.

I believe the father can be Volos.. but the mother? You can proof that th emother is really her.. but is her a pure CzW?
That's the question.

I'm sorry you trusth Frank, I will never trusth a breeder that have such actitud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mijke

see for example Iary and Icky:

If you see hole litter have some little differences, biggest difference in Iary is the coat, you can find some pbrothers with differents coat leght, but look the body and head, is pretty similar to all brothers and sisters, as they all have at little bit of tipicity for the breed at least.

elf · 06-06-2011, 08:52

The two dogs bellow from "de la Louve Blanche" kennel have a Coefficient of Relationship of 49%, this is very huge from genetical POV... as you can see

Jennin Lauma · 09-06-2011, 02:35

What is the name of the blond dog in the upper picture?
Is it in the Databace?

EDIT: OK, I found it myself

http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/11409

This one is also a half sibling then..?

http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/10636

elf · 09-06-2011, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

This one is also a half sibling then..?

Exactly.
We have tons of "weird" things from this "line"...

yukidomari · 13-06-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

The two dogs bellow from "de la Louve Blanche" kennel have a Coefficient of Relationship of 49%, this is very huge from genetical POV... as you can see

In other words these two dogs are supposedly almost as closely related as half siblings, huh?

saschia · 14-06-2011, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

In other words these two dogs are supposedly almost as closely related as half siblings, huh?

Wouldn't that be full siblings? As full siblings can share from 0 to 100 DNA, than the average is 50% for full siblings. Half-sibling can share maximum 50% DNA, in average 25%.

admin · 14-06-2011, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

The two dogs bellow from "de la Louve Blanche" kennel have a Coefficient of Relationship of 49%, this is very huge from genetical POV... as you can see

No wonder about the anomalies by this kennel. If someone is mixing American Wolfdogs he will take exactly such "strange" results which are the best prove for the cheated pedigrees.

admin · 14-06-2011, 12:32

As it seems some people in France are incredibly interested to hide the truth and avoid the OFFICIAL DNA parentage tests I post the same post as I published on the French forum.

I know that the title is hard but it is also true... SAD but true. This time it is 100% serious - it do not base on the "different look on the photos" but on the facts. First time I received an email about it I ignored it - I didn't believe that somebody would be so crazy to break the FCI rules and cheat the pedigrees. But now the proves are in the front of your eyes.

I was explaining why so many people from different countries were complaining to put the words MIX next to the all "wolfish" and "untypical" dogs. I listed all their arguments like untypical look, bodies, heads, masks, size, expressions... Even people who were "simple owners" knew that something is "stinking". Now we have people who are prepared to sign their words ON A PAPER when your kennel club will ask for witnesses.

As you for sure know in Europe there are several breeders and owners of American Wolfdogs (usually Malamute/Husky/German Shepherds/Tundra Wolf mixes). And exactly such wolfdogs were used to make the "wolfish" looking Wolfdogs in France. AND exactly it is the reason why there are more and more TOTALLY UNTYPICAL Wolfdogs born in your country: First generations (CsW x American Wolfdog) are pretty nice - not typical for our breed but nice. But in the next generation the genes divide and make in many cases such totally untypical GSD-Husky looking dogs like the half-sister of Demoniak. Simply said: the nice wolfish dogs and the strange mixes are nothing also as TOTAL MUTTS: CsW-Husky-Malamute-Germans Shepherd-Tundra Wolf Mixes... Or shorter said: THEY ARE NOT CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS.

But back to the facts:

- C-litter de la Louve Blanche
We have wittiness and the confirmation of the American Wolfdog owner that the French breeder covered his female with his stud dog Unca Southern Breeze . We do not know if the all litter are mixes or the female Ossa CRying Wolf was covered by two males - Merlin AND Unca. Or the whole litter comes from Unca. But FOR 100% Ckinay and C'Pouschka are the children of the mentioned American Wolfdog:

- D-litter de la Louve Blanche
We know that the male Volos Crying Wolf covered an American Wolfdog female. The owner of the female is unreachable - no wonder: he is the friend of the French breeder. What we do not know if it apply to the whole litter or only some puppies come from the American Wolfdog.

This is not everything as there is a huge possiblity (and because there are more dogs comming from this kennel showing untypical characterustics) that there are more litters cheated like this. And more dogs can have fake parents in the pedigree.

What is our goal: WE ASK THE FRENCH BREEDERS TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND THE FRENCH KENNEL CLUB TO MAKE FINALLY THE DNA TESTS.
We suggest to test CPouschka as first (because her parents are still alive - at least we hope they will not "disappear" or "die" after this post) - we know for 100% that she is daughter of Unca and the DNA test will prove it. If you need any written statement of someone who will confirm it - we have such people. I hope it will convince you that very bad things are going on here.

24-11-2008, 21:34	#4
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Botis and Balrog only have silly differences in collor, they're pretty similar in body and are tipical CzW, all these differences we can wait for a normal litter, different of the litters mentioned here, where we see a suposed CzW with googles and other things that turn these dogs atipical even for the breed. if you find a "honour" someone think your dogs are mixes, I think you need studie a little bit about " breed" and "selection" as actualise yourself about the problems CzW is passing. __________________

02-12-2008, 16:20	#7
Wolfsirius Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 118	Maybe in this foto above C'Pouchka have something similarity in exterior with Vorss? http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7424 -Suski __________________ I believe in the Wolf, her spirit and her strength. I respect the power they have and will. Walk beside them and protect them my entire life. -Suski-

02-12-2008, 22:29	#8
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	It is indeed very similar Of course everybody can see the differences in the C litter. But…… theoretical it is always possible to have different types in one litter. Also in this data base you can find more examples of different types in one litter see for example Iary and Icky: __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

06-06-2011, 08:52	#10
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	The two dogs bellow from "de la Louve Blanche" kennel have a Coefficient of Relationship of 49%, this is very huge from genetical POV... as you can see __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

09-06-2011, 02:35	#11
Jennin Lauma Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 66	What is the name of the blond dog in the upper picture? Is it in the Databace? EDIT: OK, I found it myself http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/11409 This one is also a half sibling then..? http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/10636 __________________ -Jenni- http://jenninlauma.weebly.com Last edited by Jennin Lauma; 09-06-2011 at 02:46. Reason: Found what I was looking for... and more :)

24-11-2008, 20:40	#1
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Frankie, C`Pouchka, nice looking, but I can not understand too, that Merlin und Ossa should be the parents...?! I remember I think it was a good 1 1/2 year ago maybe a bit more, that you did publish in french homepage for selling dogs the first litter from Merlin and Ossa. But the funny thing was that you took pictures from american wolfdogs with brown coat like C´´Pouchka has and white mask from wolf. It has been hybrids but not Merlin and Ossa. And some people ask you and you remember what, it took 1 day and you took the pictures from the net and did not answer the questions what kind of dogs these were. I think there is here in english forum a thread. If I have time I will search. And when I see now C´Pouchka for me she looks like not Merlin was father but one of these hybrids. What do you say? I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent. Christian owner of the sister to Merlin, Myla Crying Wolf

24-11-2008, 20:53	#2
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	I just notice that the thread is right on top Frankies kennel and I wrote on 21.1.2007. But it was another pic with two hybrids standing right beside a hut. Not the mother with new puppies. Christian

24-11-2008, 21:10	#3
furyos Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 729	hi christian .. yes y remember yu ...how are yu ?.... y know that c'pouchka is darker than blue or blazy but in "B" litter y have 1 male dark too(balrog )and ...ckinai in same litter is clearly and is the brother(go to database to see) .. yu cando test blood dna ..if yu want ... just before this topic lupis say y have husky blood and saarloos blood and now yu say y have usa hybrid wolf ... good things because it'will be great to have this look for my kennel ... it's a real honnor and compliment if yu think that .. but sorry if y couldn't satisfy yur curiosity in the good way ....... y hope yu wait very nice litter from miky ..(y love him too) and y do with velaskez (induk's son)a marriage ... y hope so.... future can say if y go in a good way ... best regards .. frank

02-12-2008, 10:59	#6
Backman Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 22	HI LUPIS on the picture of Dream Wolf above, he is about 4 months old, so I do not think it is the right time of dogs age to judge what he will be like as grown up. so when he is all grown up and you still think he looks like a husky..hihi you can tell me.. Who are you? who are you to judge my dogs, I love my dogs,they are the best I have! And I trust Frank, and just to prove you are all wrong I will take DNA test to prove Crying Wolf Volos is father to Dream Wolf. I think this is really ridicoulus. Take good care of your own dogs instead and give them all your time, and not put all your energy surfing on the net to blame other breeders. Jenny ,Finland

14-06-2011, 12:32	#16
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	As it seems some people in France are incredibly interested to hide the truth and avoid the OFFICIAL DNA parentage tests I post the same post as I published on the French forum. I know that the title is hard but it is also true... SAD but true. This time it is 100% serious - it do not base on the "different look on the photos" but on the facts. First time I received an email about it I ignored it - I didn't believe that somebody would be so crazy to break the FCI rules and cheat the pedigrees. But now the proves are in the front of your eyes. I was explaining why so many people from different countries were complaining to put the words MIX next to the all "wolfish" and "untypical" dogs. I listed all their arguments like untypical look, bodies, heads, masks, size, expressions... Even people who were "simple owners" knew that something is "stinking". Now we have people who are prepared to sign their words ON A PAPER when your kennel club will ask for witnesses. As you for sure know in Europe there are several breeders and owners of American Wolfdogs (usually Malamute/Husky/German Shepherds/Tundra Wolf mixes). And exactly such wolfdogs were used to make the "wolfish" looking Wolfdogs in France. AND exactly it is the reason why there are more and more TOTALLY UNTYPICAL Wolfdogs born in your country: First generations (CsW x American Wolfdog) are pretty nice - not typical for our breed but nice. But in the next generation the genes divide and make in many cases such totally untypical GSD-Husky looking dogs like the half-sister of Demoniak. Simply said: the nice wolfish dogs and the strange mixes are nothing also as TOTAL MUTTS: CsW-Husky-Malamute-Germans Shepherd-Tundra Wolf Mixes... Or shorter said: THEY ARE NOT CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS. But back to the facts: - C-litter de la Louve Blanche We have wittiness and the confirmation of the American Wolfdog owner that the French breeder covered his female with his stud dog Unca Southern Breeze . We do not know if the all litter are mixes or the female Ossa CRying Wolf was covered by two males - Merlin AND Unca. Or the whole litter comes from Unca. But FOR 100% Ckinay and C'Pouschka are the children of the mentioned American Wolfdog: - D-litter de la Louve Blanche We know that the male Volos Crying Wolf covered an American Wolfdog female. The owner of the female is unreachable - no wonder: he is the friend of the French breeder. What we do not know if it apply to the whole litter or only some puppies come from the American Wolfdog. This is not everything as there is a huge possiblity (and because there are more dogs comming from this kennel showing untypical characterustics) that there are more litters cheated like this. And more dogs can have fake parents in the pedigree. What is our goal: WE ASK THE FRENCH BREEDERS TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND THE FRENCH KENNEL CLUB TO MAKE FINALLY THE DNA TESTS. We suggest to test CPouschka as first (because her parents are still alive - at least we hope they will not "disappear" or "die" after this post) - we know for 100% that she is daughter of Unca and the DNA test will prove it. If you need any written statement of someone who will confirm it - we have such people. I hope it will convince you that very bad things are going on here.