Differences in bonitations...

Margo · 05-09-2008, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

NO....in Slovakia...if the dogs under the standard couldn't be P1 or P3!
64 cm tall male is not a breeding male!! He is under the standard!

Edith, if you think you are right why you never asked why dog from your kennel (Crying Wolf Falco) is still P5 (note "good") even if he has two disqualification faults (size under minimum - 64 cm) and character (shy - Ob)? It was EXACTLY the same case.... He is very nice dog which is under minimum size. The note was lower only because of his character... When he would have perfect character like Daimon have also Falco would be A64 Of R1 P3....
So why you wonder first right now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

I am a bit puzzled by the bonitation results from Pozna. How can a male dog with 64cm in withers be bonitated and claimed breedable? That is a major fault against standard.
Or is there a different standard for CSW in Poland?

Dear Mirka, as a breeder and experienced owner of CzW you should know it is not the only case. Please do not sneer at "different standard for CSW in Poland" because EVERYBODY who has a little bit more to do with bonitations in Slovakia and Czech Republic know such cases... You will find over 20 dogs which were 64 cm and get the notes "P1" (excellent), P3 ("very good") or P5 ("good").
NO, the bonitations were not in Poland. They were in Slovakia and Czech Republic...
Why such notes were and are possible? I wrote it already in the last post...

jasmine · 05-09-2008, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo

Edith, if you think you are right why you never asked why dog from your kennel (Crying Wolf Falco) is still P5 (note "good") even if he has two disqualification faults (size under minimum - 64 cm) and character (shy - Ob)? It was EXACTLY the same case.... He is very nice dog which is under minimum size. The note was lower only because of his character... When he would have perfect character like Daimon have also Falco would be A64 Of R1 P3....
So why you wonder first right now...

Margo, My question was not against you or your dog(s)! I was just wondering.............if we have the same bonitacions...how could be big differences ??????....an in this case how could be happened that some bonitacions in some countries are not accepted.........

about HD: yes...it would be good if we could see the hd results in bonitacion code....or...the dogs could be bonitated and bred just if they have got official hd results (like in Hungary and some other countries)....

Edit

PS: I looked through the studdog list and I couldn't find dogs under the standard with P1 and/or P3 code. But maybe it is my fault.........

Hanka · 05-09-2008, 11:07

To Vaiva:
In bonitation codes are only defects. If czech breed comission (or bonitation comission) see some small exterier defects what have not character of defects, we write it to note only. Is not right, dogs with diskvalification defects have it in note, but no in codes. (In note you can read open lips, but in real it is not Really open lips, but only very little. It is just like: "danger-children of this dogs can have open lips when somebody will combinate two dogs with this small mistake". Or in note can be some mistake or defect what has not letter in bonitation code.....
And: all members of Czech club can see full bonitation codes + NOTES on clubpage. We have it!!!! already.
So everybody in Czech can know all about dog, what somebody wants know....On foto can be perfect dog, he can have perfect code, But in note you can read something more....
In other countries it does not exist, I think......
Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

wolfin · 05-09-2008, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

Dear Hanka,
in this years we have II CSV CLUB dogs show in Lithuania and II bonitation in me country.

all dogs who have breeds right in LT have and bonitation and HD results.

greatings
vet.doc. FCI and bonitation judge, CVK in Lithuania president
Daiva Rimaityte

Hanka · 05-09-2008, 12:02

So great

)). Now you can only write notes behind bonitation codes on some club pages . If all clubs wil do the same.......Dream

Liesbeth · 05-09-2008, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

So great

)). Now you can only write notes behind bonitation codes on some club pages . If all clubs wil do the same.......Dream

Great idea. I'll propose the same in Belgium!

Liesbeth

*Satu · 05-09-2008, 12:22

Why bonitationjudge can make bonitation to own dogs and puppies?

Or why somebody use electricity collar in bonitation? or they use violence?
and why dog who is very aggresive have P1-P3?

"everyone can live whit dog who is not looking like perfect but not if dog wants eat all peoples and other dogs"

Hanka · 05-09-2008, 12:39

Satu, where and when hapenned it? If is somebody member of breedcomission, he (she) must not be member of this in moment when his (her) dog make bonitation.
For example like me in Czech republic. I think, I was one time on bonitation and I was in bonitation comission. But in moment of bonitation I must not be in commission. It must be official, on the paper from bonitation where are bonitation results. I must not measure my dog, I must not tell about his result and bonitation comission have minus one member in this moment. But I don´t know, how is it in other countries......

*Satu · 05-09-2008, 13:01

Hanka, take your time and check all bonitation results.

I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules.
if some club/country whant´s strict rules than orgin they can make it.

Also we need more bonitationjudges and that International Club can teach all botitationjudges.

I know very many breeds and they have that kind of INT CLUB.
They have meetings every second year.

massimo · 05-09-2008, 13:12

wow...this thread is becoming "let's see who throws more shit on other breeders!!"
Margo, can you change the title?

jasmine · 05-09-2008, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Satu

Why bonitationjudge can make bonitation to own dogs and puppies?

Or why somebody use electricity collar in bonitation? or they use violence?
and why dog who is very aggresive have P1-P3?

"everyone can live whit dog who is not looking like perfect but not if dog wants eat all peoples and other dogs"

yeeess...good question...I have got nice videospot about bonitacio in Hronec...some part is very interresting

agressivity is biggest problem than shyness...and I think the klubs must think over and change the caracter test!!!!

Margo · 05-09-2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

yeeess...good question...I have got nice videospot about bonitacio in Hronec...some part is very interresting

agressivity is biggest problem than shyness...and I think the klubs must think over and change the caracter test!!!!

Let's stop play the game "Quest which dog I mean"

It makes more things easier.... and make the air more clear...

Let say it open and ask Michael questions about the bonitation of Gorbi Zlata Palz directly... We were there, we know why the results was as it is... It has no sence to make something top secret because there is really nothing to hide...

Vaiva · 05-09-2008, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

To Vaiva:
(In note you can read open lips, but in real it is not Really open lips, but only very little. It is just like: "danger-children of this dogs can have open lips when somebody will combinate two dogs with this small mistake".

Yes, that is why we need to know these notes. If I have to go to a male for thousands kilometres, I would like to know, what he has in "notes" first

Quote:

Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

As wolfin allready mentioned, we do have an official breed club in Lithuania and in fact it is so easy to know everything about any dog here, because only 17 wolfdogs live in Lithuania

Margo · 05-09-2008, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

Margo, My question was not against you or your dog(s)! I was just wondering..............

Edith - if something has four legs, is barking like a dog and looking like a dog it IS a DOG....

I hope you understand if I will not believe you it is not personal... I really will not believe that person which bred so many dogs and is insider in this breed for a long time never checked the list of OWN dogs and didn't saw that Falco passed bonitation although he is 64 cm... I do not believe you never checked the list of Slovak stud dogs where since YEARS you can see Iran which is 64 cm and already had puppies by such famous Slovak kennels like Radov dvor or spod Ďumbiera....

So I'm really astonished that you "discovered" the problem first right now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

PS: I looked through the studdog list and I couldn't find dogs under the standard with P1 and/or P3 code. But maybe it is my fault.........

Please read the words of Martine:

Quote:

Originally Posted by loco

I have seen more dogs under the breed standard in the database

.
And do have bonitation and claimed that they are breedable, and the bonitation was not in Poland

.

The list is long but few example just for you:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/3588
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1360
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/745
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/2851
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/2822

05-09-2008, 12:22	#7
*Satu Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 194	Why bonitationjudge can make bonitation to own dogs and puppies? Or why somebody use electricity collar in bonitation? or they use violence? and why dog who is very aggresive have P1-P3? "everyone can live whit dog who is not looking like perfect but not if dog wants eat all peoples and other dogs" __________________ www.csv.fi

05-09-2008, 13:01	#9
*Satu Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 194	Hanka, take your time and check all bonitation results. I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules. if some club/country whant´s strict rules than orgin they can make it. Also we need more bonitationjudges and that International Club can teach all botitationjudges. I know very many breeds and they have that kind of INT CLUB. They have meetings every second year. __________________ www.csv.fi

05-09-2008, 13:12	#10
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	wow...this thread is becoming "let's see who throws more shit on other breeders!!" Margo, can you change the title? __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

05-09-2008, 11:07	#3
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	To Vaiva: In bonitation codes are only defects. If czech breed comission (or bonitation comission) see some small exterier defects what have not character of defects, we write it to note only. Is not right, dogs with diskvalification defects have it in note, but no in codes. (In note you can read open lips, but in real it is not Really open lips, but only very little. It is just like: "danger-children of this dogs can have open lips when somebody will combinate two dogs with this small mistake". Or in note can be some mistake or defect what has not letter in bonitation code..... And: all members of Czech club can see full bonitation codes + NOTES on clubpage. We have it!!!! already. So everybody in Czech can know all about dog, what somebody wants know....On foto can be perfect dog, he can have perfect code, But in note you can read something more.... In other countries it does not exist, I think...... Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

05-09-2008, 12:02	#5
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	So great )). Now you can only write notes behind bonitation codes on some club pages . If all clubs wil do the same.......Dream

05-09-2008, 12:39	#8
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Satu, where and when hapenned it? If is somebody member of breedcomission, he (she) must not be member of this in moment when his (her) dog make bonitation. For example like me in Czech republic. I think, I was one time on bonitation and I was in bonitation comission. But in moment of bonitation I must not be in commission. It must be official, on the paper from bonitation where are bonitation results. I must not measure my dog, I must not tell about his result and bonitation comission have minus one member in this moment. But I don´t know, how is it in other countries......