de Louba Tar kennel

Nebulosa · 15-12-2007, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacino

i am only concerned that all the dogs no matter what they look like are put in better living conditions

I really not know how it works in europe, remembering that this local is public and all who want can read and understand as they wish, haven't the danger of someone alert the zoonosis control center for put an end in that kennel? These fotos are suficiently for zoonosis control go and see if it's all truth, if they do that I don't think that they will leave these dogs alive...

furyos · 15-12-2007, 02:11

hi everybody ...y have today mrs c.keizer to speak about this post ...after discussions and after consult some people (friend /lawers etc ....)she decide to write ...y post for her ...(because she never write on this public forum first time because she don' t want spend her time (so busy )on and second part because this is not in her mentality to talk negativly ....

"Amazing what you can do on internetforums to harm people you do not dare to confront in a more personal way.
This is not the first time Mr. Winder attacks cwd breeders and maybe the best way is to ignore hysterical allegations.
But one wonders why now, after all these years?
He seems to forget that he and his wife Mandy were guests at the Louba-Tar kennels for one and a half year and that maybe he even built the pens he took pictures from after heavy rainfall.
Should he have done a better job?
It did not seem to bother him at that time to leave his 7 dogs in these kennels when he left for Spain for a period of 5 whole months.
Pictures of the Louba-Tar dogs are used and abused by Mr. Winder as its suits his purposes:
in September 2006 pictures taken at the same kennel were there to illustrate happy dogs, running around in flowery surroundings.
But then Mr. Winder wanted to show off as THE specialist on wolfdogs in the UK, repeating everything he had learned at the Louba-Tar kennels.
It's almost X-mas and wouldn't it be great if the forum was a place where you exchange experiences with people who are mad about these wonderful dogs called czechoslowakian wolfdogs instead of turning it into a dustbin for frustated crap? C.KEIZER"

just precify that y hope her words find sense and lightly mind .....greatings ...furyos

Rona · 15-12-2007, 13:11

Furyos, I don't know the breeder and I don’t know Paul but you can't deny that even if you call Paul's posts 'manipulation', one may easily count the dogs' ribs on both Paul's and Mirka's photos. Surely CSVs are not greyhounds, are they? I see no reason why Mirka should manipulate the photos if all other pictures she takes bring out the best of every dog?

Besides, you defend the French breeder... Fine, but two things surprise me:
First: you don't seem to worry about the welfare of de Louba Tar dogs. How would you feel IF it turns out that Paul was right and he (and others involved) will win the case in court (or whatever they plan) What will your reaction be IF Paul manages to proove that the dogs were kept in terrible conditions? Will you still defend the breeder and attack Paul? Or will you apologise him? Remember, we're talking here about living creatures. It's not an academic discussion!

Mind you: I'm not saying that this will happen for sure, but wouldn't it be wiser to withhold your judgements before you and we all learn more about the case and Paul's 'action' is brought out to the public?

Secondly: you accuse Paul of hypocrisy, bad intentions, hidden agenda, call him names while in fact we don't know where the truth lies. Your attitude and blind defence is weird to me and makes me wonder what YOUR intentions are? National loyalty or common interests with the breeder? Are you aware that you're risking your own reputation? If she loses the case you'll be disregarded by the majority of CSV owners community, not only in France.

Another question: what would you do if you had such knowledge like Paul? Keep it to yourself or display it? Any time, or only if you compiled good evidence?

***
What would each of us do in such circumstances?

solowolf · 15-12-2007, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by furyos

hi everybody ...y have today mrs c.keizer to speak about this post ...after discussions and after consult some people (friend /lawers etc ....)she decide to write ...y post for her ...(because she never write on this public forum first time because she don' t want spend her time (so busy )on and second part because this is not in her mentality to talk negativly .... "Amazing what you can do on internetforums to harm people you do not dare to confront in a more personal way.
This is not the first time Mr. Winder attacks cwd breeders and maybe the best way is to ignore hysterical allegations.
But one wonders why now, after all these years?
He seems to forget that he and his wife Mandy were guests at the Louba-Tar kennels for one and a half year and that maybe he even built the pens he took pictures from after heavy rainfall.
Should he have done a better job?
It did not seem to bother him at that time to leave his 7 dogs in these kennels when he left for Spain for a period of 5 whole months.
Pictures of the Louba-Tar dogs are used and abused by Mr. Winder as its suits his purposes:
in September 2006 pictures taken at the same kennel were there to illustrate happy dogs, running around in flowery surroundings.
But then Mr. Winder wanted to show off as THE specialist on wolfdogs in the UK, repeating everything he had learned at the Louba-Tar kennels.
It's almost X-mas and wouldn't it be great if the forum was a place where you exchange experiences with people who are mad about these wonderful dogs called czechoslowakian wolfdogs instead of turning it into a dustbin for frustated crap? C.KEIZER y just precify that y hope her words find sense and lightly mind .....greatings ...furyos

as i have told you before in two posts i will not repeat myself again, but as i said, the conditions are the tip of an iceburg, with so many posts wanting to know all the details i have now give a deadline to the authorities and breed club to take action on this breeder and others, if i do not get response then i and others will go to national papers in uk and europe and every thing will then be publish and out in the open for all to see, i have posted my full name and address so Mrs Keizer can inform her legal representitive to deal with my allegations, after all as you and other say it my be rummors or false information,, but just think, do you really think i would do this if i was not correct, as you are in contact with Mrs Keizer why noy ask her why she does not take legal action against me? yes i did build some compounds for the dogs and yes if Mrs Keizer had of given me the money i could have made shelters, mr Gerrard de moore and many others also helped build at these kennels maybe they to could have built them better as well, also it costs alot of money to take 4-6 dogs to shows and we all know Mrs Keizer attended lots and not just in France so maybe this money would have been better spent on the dogs living quarters as well, every question you ask i will have an answer , but the facts are i worked there i did not own or run the kennels, if you would like me to send you videos please send your private email address and i will send you some, the photos are mild compared to the horendous video clips we have and not all were taken by me, best regards paul

solowolf · 16-12-2007, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

I really not know how it works in europe, remembering that this local is public and all who want can read and understand as they wish, haven't the danger of someone alert the zoonosis control center for put an end in that kennel? These fotos are suficiently for zoonosis control go and see if it's all truth, if they do that I don't think that they will leave these dogs alive...

hi yes i know about the French authorities and what they do but we are working with other people to make sure all dogs are safe , it has taken time but we have a choice leave things the way they are or stop it for the future dogs, it was not easy decision and i did not make it myself i consulted a lot of friends in Europe we discuss the situation and the risks but we have all seen the kennels and we all say we must stop it now, members of a breed clud have viewed the vodeos made by different people at different times a lot of the people cried after seeing the clips, other people have also came forward now to help and share other photos, thank you for your post regards paul

Joyce · 16-12-2007, 01:22

Paul, it almost seems like you are the owner of this site.
If somebody ask some questions back, you stated that we make silly remarks, and if somebody is more in to your corner than you say thank you for your post.
So you say that if a friend is also at the kennel of which you say time after time that dogs should not live in these circumstances than it is ok to leave your dogs there? They are still in the kennels and with somebody who you obviously does not like!
I totally agree with you and I never said that dogs should live in terrible circumstances so reed my post first well before you react.
I have read all your posts and in every post you say almost the same. I find it still very strange that it took you so long and that you ask people on the forum to send you pictures etc. just to have more evidence. So I'm thinking that your "case" is not as strong as you let believing us.
A forum is a place to let everybody learn from each other, and to speak of interesting matters. NOT FOR PERSONAL VENDETTA'S !

solowolf · 16-12-2007, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce

Paul, it almost seems like you are the owner of this site.
If somebody ask some questions back, you stated that we make silly remarks, and if somebody is more in to your corner than you say thank you for your post.
So you say that if a friend is also at the kennel of which you say time after time that dogs should not live in these circumstances than it is ok to leave your dogs there? They are still in the kennels and with somebody who you obviously does not like!
I totally agree with you and I never said that dogs should live in terrible circumstances so reed my post first well before you react.
I have read all your posts and in every post you say almost the same. I find it still very strange that it took you so long and that you ask people on the forum to send you pictures etc. just to have more evidence. So I'm thinking that your "case" is not as strong as you let believing us.
A forum is a place to let everybody learn from each other, and to speak of interesting matters. NOT FOR PERSONAL VENDETTA'S !

i have no dogs at de louba tar kennels, paul

Joyce · 17-12-2007, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacino

i have no dogs at de louba tar kennels, paul

That is not what I am saying. Once again read my post very well before answering.

15-12-2007, 02:11	#2
furyos Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 729	hi everybody ...y have today mrs c.keizer to speak about this post ...after discussions and after consult some people (friend /lawers etc ....)she decide to write ...y post for her ...(because she never write on this public forum first time because she don' t want spend her time (so busy )on and second part because this is not in her mentality to talk negativly .... "Amazing what you can do on internetforums to harm people you do not dare to confront in a more personal way. This is not the first time Mr. Winder attacks cwd breeders and maybe the best way is to ignore hysterical allegations. But one wonders why now, after all these years? He seems to forget that he and his wife Mandy were guests at the Louba-Tar kennels for one and a half year and that maybe he even built the pens he took pictures from after heavy rainfall. Should he have done a better job? It did not seem to bother him at that time to leave his 7 dogs in these kennels when he left for Spain for a period of 5 whole months. Pictures of the Louba-Tar dogs are used and abused by Mr. Winder as its suits his purposes: in September 2006 pictures taken at the same kennel were there to illustrate happy dogs, running around in flowery surroundings. But then Mr. Winder wanted to show off as THE specialist on wolfdogs in the UK, repeating everything he had learned at the Louba-Tar kennels. It's almost X-mas and wouldn't it be great if the forum was a place where you exchange experiences with people who are mad about these wonderful dogs called czechoslowakian wolfdogs instead of turning it into a dustbin for frustated crap? C.KEIZER" just precify that y hope her words find sense and lightly mind .....greatings ...furyos

15-12-2007, 13:11	#3
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	Furyos, I don't know the breeder and I don’t know Paul but you can't deny that even if you call Paul's posts 'manipulation', one may easily count the dogs' ribs on both Paul's and Mirka's photos. Surely CSVs are not greyhounds, are they? I see no reason why Mirka should manipulate the photos if all other pictures she takes bring out the best of every dog? Besides, you defend the French breeder... Fine, but two things surprise me: First: you don't seem to worry about the welfare of de Louba Tar dogs. How would you feel IF it turns out that Paul was right and he (and others involved) will win the case in court (or whatever they plan) What will your reaction be IF Paul manages to proove that the dogs were kept in terrible conditions? Will you still defend the breeder and attack Paul? Or will you apologise him? Remember, we're talking here about living creatures. It's not an academic discussion! Mind you: I'm not saying that this will happen for sure, but wouldn't it be wiser to withhold your judgements before you and we all learn more about the case and Paul's 'action' is brought out to the public? Secondly: you accuse Paul of hypocrisy, bad intentions, hidden agenda, call him names while in fact we don't know where the truth lies. Your attitude and blind defence is weird to me and makes me wonder what YOUR intentions are? National loyalty or common interests with the breeder? Are you aware that you're risking your own reputation? If she loses the case you'll be disregarded by the majority of CSV owners community, not only in France. Another question: what would you do if you had such knowledge like Paul? Keep it to yourself or display it? Any time, or only if you compiled good evidence? * What would each of us do in such circumstances?**

16-12-2007, 01:22	#6
Joyce Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 12	Paul, it almost seems like you are the owner of this site. If somebody ask some questions back, you stated that we make silly remarks, and if somebody is more in to your corner than you say thank you for your post. So you say that if a friend is also at the kennel of which you say time after time that dogs should not live in these circumstances than it is ok to leave your dogs there? They are still in the kennels and with somebody who you obviously does not like! I totally agree with you and I never said that dogs should live in terrible circumstances so reed my post first well before you react. I have read all your posts and in every post you say almost the same. I find it still very strange that it took you so long and that you ask people on the forum to send you pictures etc. just to have more evidence. So I'm thinking that your "case" is not as strong as you let believing us. A forum is a place to let everybody learn from each other, and to speak of interesting matters. NOT FOR PERSONAL VENDETTA'S !