de Louba Tar kennel

[furyos]

hi everybody;..yes y 'm agree with elf...y think that yur charges are so so important ..... and see on a private war ...but this is just my opinion ...mr paul you are free ....and you can think and do what yu think the best for yur mind ...BUT y don' t think that the solution is on this forum .... that's all ...yur image can became dark also....but yu are adult guy and it's so easy to have just one version .....y study in the pass law (but y m not lawer)and y think that yur acts on this forum are little too mutch in their foundments .... y try to respect all people and y prefer stop my intervention on this reply NOW!!! ....it's not my war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....regards ..furyos

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi everybody;..yes y 'm agree with elf...y think that yur charges are so so important ..... and see on a private war ...but this is just my opinion ...mr paul you are free ....and you can think and do what yu think the best for yur mind ...BUT y don' t think that the solution is on this forum .... that's all ...yur image can became dark also....but yu are adult guy and it's so easy to have just one version .....y study in the pass law (but y m not lawer)and y think that yur acts on this forum are little too mutch in their foundments .... y try to respect all people and y prefer stop my intervention on this reply NOW!!! ....it's not my war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....regards ..furyos

hi its not a war, i feel it is my duty to both the czechoslovakian wolfdogs and the saarloos wolfhounds that have to live like this, i lived with these dogs for a long time and loved everyone of them, when i left two of my friends came to see us, when we made the photos and videos, we went to the kitchen area all four people in that room broke down and cried, yet we could not do anything for fear of the Frence authorities would destroy the dogs, it will all become clear very soon, i put this on the forum because the time was right and i want to make it clear, I and others want this breeder to be brought to justice, you will be amazed at what has been going on for over 15 yrs in Europe with the czech and saarloos, and the people involved, i want the dog world to know the facts, and when they come out then i am free to be critisized if it is felt nessesary, i respect people as a rule but when breeding dogs you are responsable for what you breed and sell, and if it is not correct then you sell dogs under fraudulent lies, the czechs and saarloos from these kennels look nothing like or even come in to there breed standards/// paul

[Rona]

I'm not defending or attacting de Louba Tar, I know nothing about the breeder. Ina's comments sound very reasonable.... thanks for bringing some common sense into the discussion, Ina.

Paul, I'm trying hard to follow your way of reasoning, but could you try to be a little more precise? It would really help us understand your position.

Originally Posted by pacino

i put this on the forum because the time was right

What happend to make the time right? French regulations've changed? You managed to get some authorities promise the dogs will not be exterminated? Maybe evidence was compiled? Or something else's happened? Tell us. Otherwise it looks strange - you looked after those skinny dogs every day for 18 months, left the place and now, after a few years, all of the sudden begin an "action"....and even now it's not clear what sort of action

Originally Posted by pacino

you will be amazed at what has been going on for over 15 yrs in Europe with the czech and saarloos,

Well, what has been going on? Tell us what you have in mind. I suppose lots of things have been going on - some very positive and some very nasty. We hear occassionaly about both. But what do YOU mean exactly - facts, facts please.

Originally Posted by pacino

when they come out then i am free to be critisized if it is felt nessesary

When, where and how will they come out? Is there a case in court? Did you inform the police? Maybe a TV programme is being made?

I suppose you have your truth, you reasons and probably evidence. But this is a public place and if you accuse somebody of something it's not enough to just say "one day you'll find out". You either provide good evidence, or tell exactly where and when one can see the evidence or ....write nothing. Otherwise it raises doubts. Anything can be written on the forum, as you probably know, and it's very hard to depict what is true, and what isn't.

What really matters is the condition of the dogs. It would be good to obtain some objective, reliable and recently confirmed info, not just old photos.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Rona

I'm not defending or attacting de Louba Tar, I know nothing about the breeder. Ina's comments sound very reasonable.... thanks for bringing some common sense into the discussion, Ina.

Paul, I'm trying hard to follow your way of reasoning, but could you try to be a little more precise? It would really help us understand your position.

What happend to make the time right? French regulations've changed? You managed to get some authorities promise the dogs will not be exterminated? Maybe evidence was compiled? Or something else's happened? Tell us. Otherwise it looks strange - you looked after those skinny dogs every day for 18 months, left the place and now, after a few years, all of the sudden begin an "action"....and even now it's not clear what sort of action


Well, what has been going on? Tell us what you have in mind. I suppose lots of things have been going on - some very positive and some very nasty. We hear occassionaly about both. But what do YOU mean exactly - facts, facts please.


When, where and how will they come out? Is there a case in court? Did you inform the police? Maybe a TV programme is being made?

I suppose you have your truth, you reasons and probably evidence. But this is a public place and if you accuse somebody of something it's not enough to just say "one day you'll find out". You either provide good evidence, or tell exactly where and when one can see the evidence or ....write nothing. Otherwise it raises doubts. Anything can be written on the forum, as you probably know, and it's very hard to depict what is true, and what isn't.

What really matters is the condition of the dogs. It would be good to obtain some objective, reliable and recently confirmed info, not just old photos.

it has been very frustrating for us as we had to gather lots of evidence, it has taken a long time, we can not work on hear say, we needed hard evidence that could be used in court, we needed wittnesses to make statements, photo, videos, there are other people involved as well, so yet more evidence was needed, it took over a year to find just one dog we needed, and it has been hard every day as in our hearts we knew that the dogs we so despiratly wanted to help were still living in hell,, our evidense has been sent to the authorities and other places, untill we get the reply i can not say anything, i was told i could now show the photos and some videos, and i put them up right away to make sure people could see the conditions of the dogs, in your mail posted to day it states {all we see is old photos /////} for your benifit look at the last photo on my web site IT WAS TAKEN TWO WEEKS AGO..... so nothing has changed,, i thought it would be of some use to expose this breeder and we ask no one to buy dogs from these kennels, but to help close them,, i am sorry that at present i can not disclose any more facts but it could affect the out come in court, and you must all understand this, my aim at present is to expose this breeder to the public and to make them aware of the health and conditions of these dogs, you have seen photos of dogs that were taken at dog shows and comments have been made on this web site about the dogs before, it is sad that you say give us evidence or say nothing at all, as it raises doughts,, do these photos i show leave anyone on this web site with any doughts that the dogs are living in terrible conditions, does it leave anyone with any doughts that these dogs are under weight, and does it leave anyone with any doughts that this breeder should not be allowed to own any dogs at all,, i think not, yes anyone can write on this site, the photos are not words they are evidence, and the same photos are with the authorities, they tell no lies at all,, so why would anyone dought what i say, i give you all evidence in the photos, as i said before the rest will follow and as soon as i know so will everyone else, regards paul

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by pacino

it will all become clear very soon, i put this on the forum because the time was right and i want to make it clear, I and others want this breeder to be brought to justice,

I hope, that you have carefully collected and saved all the hard evidence for your upcomming battle, before you made this public and that the time is really right. Because otherwise it can happen, that at the moment when police or veterinary control or other responsible officers enter the kennels, they will find them spotlessly clean, repared and fitted with all possible and impossible equipment, because with this topic you just gave the breeder excellent warning.

I agree with Ina, unfortunatelly, that I have never heard anything positive about de Louba Tar kennel, and the Louba Tar dogs, that I have met personally, were all shy and very, very skinny. However, according to the breeder they were apparently at show condition, because she seemed very proud of them..

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

I hope, that you have carefully collected and saved all the hard evidence for your upcomming battle, before you made this public and that the time is really right. Because otherwise it can happen, that at the moment when police or veterinary control or other responsible officers enter the kennels, they will find them spotlessly clean, repared and fitted with all possible and impossible equipment, because with this topic you just gave the breeder excellent warning.

I agree with Ina, unfortunatelly, that I have never heard anything positive about de Louba Tar kennel, and the Louba Tar dogs, that I have met personally, were all shy and very, very skinny. However, according to the breeder they were apparently at show condition, because she seemed very proud of them..

hi , yes all the evidence is complete , the conditions is only one part of the evidence, and if the kennels were cleaned up it would not matter at all, in fact i hope the breeder is out there right now cleaning them,,, if you took a dog to a dog show n uk that looked like one from this kennel you would be arrested by the police or dog warden for cruelty to an animal,, you can not as one person give any time to your dogs when you own over 100 dogs, if i was at the kennel by myself i would start at 7:00 by the time i cleaned out the kennels and pens, cleaned the food bowls, changed the water. feed the dogs, cleaned out the bitchs with pups, fed the pups, changed the dogs round into the outside compounds it was 11:00 at night i would not stop for lunch or dinner, when finnished i would eat and wash then bed, 16 hrs flat out,, to get to know a dog here you would have to take it to bed with you,, it was not so bad when the 3 of us were working i then had time to take some dogs to the excercise area were i enjoyed many happy hours with the dogs, this was of coarse when the long summer nights were in, the winter in Ardense is very cold, we recorded wind chill of -34 you had to leave the hose pipe running while cleaning or it would freeze in less than 10 minutes, so for thin dogs it was very hard time, by the way not all dogs get thin from not being feed correct, some dogs get very frustrated being in kennel all day and bounce of the walls especially czechs,,, kennel mad,, regards paul

[farena]

I´m goint to answer to michaelundinaeichhorn. I think that the conditions in which this animals are living are horrible. But for me is not so important that they are mixed with shaarloos, or another kind of dog. For me the most important is the bad condittions they are living in. Inma.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by farena

I´m goint to answer to michaelundinaeichhorn. I think that the conditions in which this animals are living are horrible. But for me is not so important that they are mixed with shaarloos, or another kind of dog. For me the most important is the bad condittions they are living in. Inma.

I agree with you that if those conditions are this horrible it is of first priority that they get help. But this would be just one more case of abused dogs (what is one too many) but if the CSW are not purebred but mixed with Saarloos there are a lot of countries with a huge problem - they have based a lot of breeding on dogs that may host hereditary problems we didn´t know before and different to Saaloos mixed with CSW this will cause more health problems than before, apart from untypical dogs. This would be a long term problem and Germany is the only country that made every-year eye tests obligatory. What means it is till now the only country that will recognise heriditary eye-problems in an early state - but we don´t have any dogs out of these lines in breeding till today and no breeder here would use those dogs.
Those genes seem to be recesiv, what means they can be carried and spread over several generations till they happen to get obvious. For the breed this is of much greater importance than even 109 abused dogs - if they are living under such horrible conditions, what we don´t know for sure till now.

Ina

[Boelie]

Besides, you defend the French breeder... Fine, but two things surprise me:
First: you don't seem to worry about the welfare of de Louba Tar dogs. How would you feel IF it turns out that Paul was right and he (and others involved) will win the case in court (or whatever they plan) What will your reaction be IF Paul manages to proove that the dogs were kept in terrible conditions? Will you still defend the breeder and attack Paul? Or will you apologise him? Remember, we're talking here about living creatures. It's not an academic discussion!

Mind you: I'm not saying that this will happen for sure, but wouldn't it be wiser to withhold your judgements before you and we all learn more about the case and Paul's 'action' is brought out to the public?

Secondly: you accuse Paul of hypocrisy, bad intentions, hidden agenda, call him names while in fact we don't know where the truth lies. Your attitude and blind defence is weird to me and makes me wonder what YOUR intentions are? National loyalty or common interests with the breeder? Are you aware that you're risking your own reputation? If she loses the case you'll be disregarded by the majority of CSV owners community, not only in France.

And I wonder.... How would you all feel if Paul was wrong....?
Will the disregarded members of the CSV owners community start their own splinter-group? With Paul as their leader?
Please, people, start thinking for yourselves and try not to judge anyone becouse ONE person accuses another...
I have read this topic with growing amazement about how easily all you people (some exceptions offcourse) judge and get emotional about a place you have NEVER been, owned by a lady you have NEVER met or talked to.
Let this Paul fight his own fight with Mrs. Keizer and give your spicy opinions only when you know ALL the facts. Try to hear both sides of this story. Be a little bit more like your intelligent WOLFDOGS and follow your own judgements, you own eyes and your own ears, instead of following the one that makes the most noise... stop behaving like SHEEP...

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Boelie

And I wonder.... How would you all feel if Paul was wrong....?
Will the disregarded members of the CSV owners community start their own splinter-group? With Paul as their leader?
Please, people, start thinking for yourselves and try not to judge anyone becouse ONE person accuses another...
I have read this topic with growing amazement about how easily all you people (some exceptions offcourse) judge and get emotional about a place you have NEVER been, owned by a lady you have NEVER met or talked to.
Let this Paul fight his own fight with Mrs. Keizer and give your spicy opinions only when you know ALL the facts. Try to hear both sides of this story. Be a little bit more like your intelligent WOLFDOGS and follow your own judgements, you own eyes and your own ears, instead of following the one that makes the most noise... stop behaving like SHEEP...

hi Boelie, i look forward to getting your views very shortly, my fight is not just with MRS Keizer but putting the largest puppy farming ring in europe to an end, these breeders are cross breeding and causing lots of health problems in dogs, to register a cross bred dog as a pure bred dog is illegal,,, to bred from unhealthy stock knowing it carries defects that will come out in the pups is bloody mindlesness, and to sell them on to unwary customers is blatent fruad and desception, everyone is entitled to there views, so i have a question for you , if you live in france and you breed a litter of pups in france can you take them at 6 weeks old to a house in holland get them chipped register them under someone elses kennel name then bring them back to france to sell them? simple question you tell me if this is correct in europe please? regards paul

[Boelie]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi Boelie, i look forward to getting your views very shortly, my fight is not just with MRS Keizer but putting the largest puppy farming ring in europe to an end, these breeders are cross breeding and causing lots of health problems in dogs, to register a cross bred dog as a pure bred dog is illegal,,, to bred from unhealthy stock knowing it carries defects that will come out in the pups is bloody mindlesness, and to sell them on to unwary customers is blatent fruad and desception, everyone is entitled to there views, so i have a question for you , if you live in france and you breed a litter of pups in france can you take them at 6 weeks old to a house in holland get them chipped register them under someone elses kennel name then bring them back to france to sell them? simple question you tell me if this is correct in europe please? regards paul

Hello Paul,
From reading the posts in this topic, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that your fight IS with Mrs. Keizer. If this is meant to put an end to puppy farms all over Europe, what are the names of the other farms you have taken legal actions against? What are the names of the owners and where are the pictures of these other kennels?
For your other question, I am not aware of the law regarding the chipping-regulations and the use of kennel-names. I am not a breeder
And are you saying that her whole stock is unhealthy and carrying defects that will come out in the pups?
This would mean that no good dog could come from there?
As for my earlier reply; what I was referring to were those people who immediately juge a person becouse someone else (in this case you) say they should...
It would be wise to find out the whole story from both sides.

hi folks sorry to butt in on this thread but at times my posts do not get printed, some photos of the de louba tar kennels in france, i have held these back from you all for legal reasons but now action has started to put an end to the french breeder CORRY KEIZER i can let you see the real truth behind this breeder, here are just some pics from her kennels, WARNING some pics may cause distress but you must see them if you would like a copy of the full disc email me your address and one will be posted, also there are other issues regarding the registration of litters that will be released very soon, thank you p winder uk

This seems to me like a fight with Mrs. Keizer only?....

[Mirkawolf]

So Paul, it has been about a month since your first post about the situation in the Louba Tar kennels. Where is your action? When will be all the informations and hard facts, you talked about, finally revealed?