British Kennel Club Recognition

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

hmm.. but couldnt any of the breeders? I dont think that many prospective owners use the forum and there are quite a few forums, to be fair I've never seen the forum until 3 months ago and was put off registering as its quite anti UK on many threads. So what you have to say on here surely makes no difference to the breeder, but who knows!! we dont know why he rejected members of the forum I find it highly unlikely it would be because they are members?

I still think that its all conflicting... would I buy from him..NO, Why? Because I would need to know more,see more and speak with a breeder first to make my own mind up whether he or she is fit and responsible in my own eyes..be it UK/EUROPE

Being a member on here and a breeder doesnt in my mind say this person must be good as they post on a forum?

Does he care for where his puppys are going well he seems to ? and we agree on one thing would you buy from a breeder who also breeds crosses? NO too risky!

Did I say that you had said he was a terrible breeder? I think not!!!

Its a shame that he isnt able to respond to the treads and quotes and voice his own opinion as we all can do.
However I dont know the history of the breeders etc so perhaps there is a reason he was blocked from commenting?

he was blocked because he kicked up about this czech wolfdog being abused by top kennel as breeding machine, look it up, AMRA VLCI NADEJE or go to data base and find kennel ARIMMINUM 10 litters of pups producing 69 pups breed 3 times to same sire, first litter was born when bitch was just 1 year and 3 days old last litter bitch was 10 yrs and 5 mths old when she had last litter,,,, but this is not the only kennel breeding like this is it,,,, also in data base put in non fci, you get some non fci czech wolfdogs but the site has removed many many of the x bred ones,,,,,,ok for europe but not for uk,,,,,,,ok for european breeders to x breed, ok for european breeders to mix in wolf ,,,,,,,,,,,,in uk they cant and dont try to register the x breds in europe many back street breders do,,,,,Admin please put up all non fci wolfdogs for all to see,,,,,,Rona you and other condemed mr winder for his comments on the breeding practice of Arimminum kennels i have read old posts,but you did remove a lot didnt you,,,,,question to MIJKE can you give people of uk full list of all health defects found in this breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog, it would be nice to have them all,,,,,,,,

[Rona]

I feel responsible for my words and I have never ever removed ANY of my posts!!! Not to mention that not being a moderator I simply could not do it!

Neither have I ever approved breeding many litters from one female, and even once asked Edit (Crying Wolf) on the forum how it was formally possible for her to register 3 litters of the same bitch in 2 years. Not that I was satisfied with her relpy, but what can we do if Hungarian KC accepts such practices?
Nevertheless, I would never support such a kennel and buy a pup from them, though somebody told me, you(r beloved Ronnie) did so IMO an experienced and responisble breeder should research a kennel well before getting a dog, so lack of knowldege does not justify such a step.

I see you, just like Mr Winder, seem to have some obsession with me, but I could not have abused my female because I have never bred any pups, so leave me alone, please.

Younger forum members might not know, but when I first joined wd in 2004 I was really trying hard to help Mr Winder struggle with DEFRA - signed petitions, wrote several letters, even organized a small pressure group: my family an friends in the UK supported the case by e-mailing DEFRA! I also took and forwarded photos showing how "normal" dogs CSVs were etc. etc.

Believe me or not, but I was probably one of the most disppointed members of this forum when I found out that Mr Winder was mix-breeding CSVs with a wolf, thus IMO - abusing the breed! In my country, if a registered breeder is found to have done so, he's banned from breeding for good: his kennel is closed and he cannot ever become a National KC member and show his dogs in dog shows.

And please don't tell me that breeders in other countries break the law or code of ethics - just like Hedeon mentioned - this is not a valid argument, because it does not give one any rights to do the same.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by kalcon

he was blocked because he kicked up about this czech wolfdog being abused by top kennel as breeding machine,

We all know that it's not truth, also I knew you would come back and try to use this excuse for explain why you was banned at that time, and that is exactly why I did this topic at Administration forum.

Originally Posted by Kalcon

Rona you and other condemed mr winder for his comments on the breeding practice of Arimminum kennels i have read old posts,but you did remove a lot didnt you

How you supposed she did that, if she clearly isn't Admin or an Moderator?
Uuhm... There is some kind of Daltonism which have exactly this effect, to mistake yellow and blue, have you ever think about visit an good ophthalmologist?!

Originally Posted by Kalcon

ok for european breeders to x breed, ok for european breeders to mix in wolf ,,,,,,,,,,,,in uk they cant and dont try to register the x breds in europe many back street breders do,,,,,

It isn't ok in any country ruled by FCI. Haven't mr Winder, which lived long time in Europe to learn about wolfdogs and breeding (as you said), told you about that?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

It isn't ok in any country ruled by FCI. Haven't mr Winder, which lived long time in Europe to learn about wolfdogs and breeding (as you said), told you about that?

Mr. Winder contacted me personally on Facebook, telling I am wrong not to be happy about CsW/wolf hybrids in UK, because people in Europe do the same. I asked for names of dogs again, and Mr. Winder dissapeared
Anyway, I have an idea which Lithuanian bred dogs might look like wolf hybrids for unexperienced eye and this makes me really happy

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Mr. Winder contacted me personally on Facebook, telling I am wrong not to be happy about CsW/wolf hybrids in UK, because people in Europe do the same. I asked for names of dogs again, and Mr. Winder dissapeared
Anyway, I have an idea which Lithuanian bred dogs might look like wolf hybrids for unexperienced eye and this makes me really happy

Hasn't Mr. Winder ever heard the expression 'two wrongs don't make a right'?

[AMERICANI]

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

its a statement that is used as an excuse to cross by people that do not know the first thing about the breed 'csv'

it could go both ways though,hopefully if the breed is recognised people will realise they are a domestic dog breed and not a pet wolf and the 'interest' of these numptys will dwindle...hopefully...maybe?

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

I think there is a documentary movie which can explain many of cross breeding excuses. Some time ago BBC have made a film "pedigree dogs exposed" which kind of shocked people in UK, and made Kennel Club to loose a lot of public respect. Basically, movie is about genetics problems and sicknesses of pedigree dogs in UK, caused by inbreeding. Public was terrified and shocked. So I imagine some breeders started to use a "care for breed, and health of dogs" as a excuse to cross. It could make good impression on shocked public, and put breeder in glory of animal lover. Problem is CSV ie relatively new breed, and from very beginning breeders are aware of problems caused by inbreeding. In fact CSV is one of healthiest dog breeds.

Link to movie (1 hour long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc

[Murph]

Most constructive post so far by tassle. There can always be another thread of crossing but how about moving forward from here with regard to the title of the thread?

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Hedeon

Video os Pedigree dogs exposed

We did have problems with the dog breeding here because of this video too.

People start to use it as an excuse to mix dogs, by us it was almost fatal, because really bad breeders as people who only wanted to show "the miracle of life" to their child and win some money with the selling of the pups found on this video an excuse to mate and breed mongrels.

yet we have people who use this video as support to make the things wrong pretending to be ethical, but breeders and principally owners gathered in an campaing explaining about "how wrong it this video according to our reality" or "according to the reality of the specific breed" at some of ours most well known internet spots for dog lovers.

CzW is an very unknown breed, tends to be easy work with the conscientization explaining that with CzW the situation is different and that mix dogs will only helps to ruin the breed also in health.

You have how to proof showing how many ills has been already found at the breed only because it does have GSD at its blood and how many new and unknown illness the addition of a new breed would bring.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by kalcon

question to MIJKE can you give people of uk full list of all health defects found in this breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog, it would be nice to have them all,,,,,,,,

This is since a long time for everybody to find on the Wolfdog-Healthinfo site

[pixie]

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

[Murph]

Originally Posted by pixie

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Well there is the facebook page but its always pretty quiet on there!

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Murph

Well there is the facebook page but its always pretty quiet on there!

Which FB page is that Murph? The only one I could find has died a death due to the infighting of the breeders... Maybe a new one needs to be started up to get a database of pure CsV's in the UK started?

[yukidomari]

I wish the best of luck in getting CsV recognized in the UK. According to Hedeon's post on page 4 regarding recognition, the KC rules states the following info must be included:

- Names & addresses of UK owners/importers
- Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK
[ideally at least 20, preferably unrelated]
- Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs – at least 3 generations
- Proposed breeding plan and indication of available gene pool

Hopefully there will be some breeders in the future who can fulfill point 4, because surely a proposed breeding plan acceptable by the KC can not include cross breeding or mixing.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I wish the best of luck in getting CsV recognized in the UK. According to Hedeon's post on page 4 regarding recognition, the KC rules states the following info must be included:

- Names & addresses of UK owners/importers
- Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK
[ideally at least 20, preferably unrelated]
- Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs – at least 3 generations
- Proposed breeding plan and indication of available gene pool

Hopefully there will be some breeders in the future who can fulfill point 4, because surely a proposed breeding plan acceptable by the KC can not include cross breeding or mixing.

would we need a certain 'persons' co operation? and where would we stand on the cw dogs are they from 'suspect' litters? that and at least two litters of said dogs are from 'c' rated hips....kinda bad way to start already!!!

and dont get get me started on the person that said 'they would only breed pure' with my dogs litter sister....breeders beware is all i can say!

[Aranwen]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Which FB page is that Murph? The only one I could find has died a death due to the infighting of the breeders... Maybe a new one needs to be started up to get a database of pure CsV's in the UK started?

Excellent idea!

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Which FB page is that Murph? The only one I could find has died a death due to the infighting of the breeders... Maybe a new one needs to be started up to get a database of pure CsV's in the UK started?

Nice idea, but why on FB? Maybe here it is possible to name at least the dogs, then the breeding plan could be made by experienced CsW breeders together?

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Nice idea, but why on FB? Maybe here it is possible to name at least the dogs, then the breeding plan could be made by experienced CsW breeders together?

I fully agree Vaiva, but maybe FB is less daunting at first to those in the UK (I have had many comments about anti-UK feelings on here - I personally don't see it, the comments are directed at individuals who, imo, deserve it not at UK owners). Once they have made contact via FB, they can be directed onto here. Another issue UK owners have is the way the new database describes their dogs as ''(possibly) a wolfdog from a non-FCI kennel'' - I'm sure there is a more diplomatic way to put it After all, it isn't their fault that the KC doesn't recognise the breed...

We all need to help the core of true CsV lovers to thrive in the UK - that way the existing 'breeders' with bad practices will be shamed and (hopefully) find themselves out of business.

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by pixie

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Brilliant idea.

Taz