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27-05-2011, 15:48
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#1 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 583
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Several important points - please be so kind and translate it into French:
Wrong information: We add to the database the data sent to us by the owners, breeders, which we get from show catalogue and official registries. Because of it it is no wonder that there are some mistakes. If you found one please contact me ([email protected]) and I will fix it while the next update of the dabase. Photos All photos are the property of the person who took it and this person can make with them what she/he wants. I'm receiving really many photos every day which are later added as "Admin". I do not check who took it as I go from the point of view that people respect the copyrights. So if you found photos taken by you and you want to be listed as author contact me. If you found photo which you took and you want to remove it - contact me. Remember: I will not remove photos of your dogs which were taken by someone else - because you are not the "owner" of the photo (even if you are the owner of the dogs on the photo). "My information if missing" & "my photo was not changed" stories In many cases people complain but NEVER send me any email. I'm not able to read in your brains. At the moment all changes were made - and all main photos were changed. If your change was not made it makes only that I didn't received your email or.. you forgot to write me about it. Remove my dog from the database The information about your dog is NOT your "property" but property of the breed. Every dog which has the pedigree as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" or is officially mentioned as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" will be listed in the database. What is your property is you personal data: address, email address, a.s.o. If you want to have your data removed please contact me and I will make the changed after the next update. |
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27-05-2011, 15:57
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#2 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 583
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Mixes
First remember: A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog which comes from the dogs registered during the founding of the Czechoslovakian Breed Club in 1982 - dog which ALL ancestors were registered by the CsW Club. It means: all other crosses (with Malamute, Saarloos, Wolf and American Wolf), all dogs found "in the forest", all dogs with "empty" pedigrees ARE NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. The are Wolfdogs but do not belong to the breed registered by FCI - even if because of any reason they get the pedigrees. At the moment there is first DNA test results which proved that a French dog coming from a famous French kennel is a Saaarloos-CzW mix. It is 100% sure. All dog from this line are already marked as "Saarloos_MIX". There are 100% known mixes in Italy - offisprings of white tundra wolf frossed with Malamute-GSD-alike_mix and later with CsW. The dogs wrere removed from Czech Republic and banned by the Czech Club - because of it they were smuggled to Italy and a bred there by some dishonest breeders. All the dogs are marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIX" The offsprings of the Finish mixes with the Wolf smuggled from Czech Republic are marked as (!!!_MIX_!!!). We have already information from a very serious (official) source which confirmed the doubts about other mixes among the French Wolfdogs. At the moment there are no official steps done against the breeders and owner are the whole thing is serious - in European Union it is forbidden to keep illegal wolf mixes F1-F4. Especially that the wolf is an protected specie. Every animal like this needs CITES card - in other case the animal will be taken away from the owner. In some countries keeping wolf crosses are illegal even with such card. You can be angry about Wolfdog.org but believe me - many people are trying to solve the problem in peace. First - because if we will do it official it can damage the breed and some countries can forbid breeding CsW even if the there are only 3-lines of illegal crosses. Second - if we make it official the dog will be taken away from the owners and almost for sure they will be put down. Also the owners will have really serious problems with the law. Because of it will try to solve the whole story "between" us - without asking for help of the official departments responsible for such cases. Doz is a wolf cross coming from Finland. It was already confirmed by the people from Czech Republic. I can not publish you more info but you all have the proofs in the front of you eyes: you all a wolfdog owners and you know that the basic characteristic of Wolfdogs is that puppies (offsprings) have a lot similarities with the parents, grand parents, grand-grandparents, a.s.o. Some dogs (which are crosses) do not apply it - they look totally different. Here is the photo of the mother of Doz which come from a genetic VERY strong line of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs:  Do you see ANY similarity between her and her "daughter":  or other puppies from this line? Of course there are none. Nothing is similar - the offspring look like a different breed. Do you really do not see it? Do you really believe in the lie about "perfect work of French breeders"? As I understand you wrote some angry words - but it is as I wrote you: the Saarloos crosses from France are already DNA proven. The wolf crosses are confirmed by very serious cynologist from France and from Czech Republic. What wonder me is: you are criticizing Wolfdog.org for making it public but I do not see any breeders which criticize the mentioned breeders for producing puppies with false pedigrees. Is it OK for you? Cheating is allowed? Do you see nothing wrong on it? Anyway - there are no official steps done till now. You have the possibility and time to stop it. And remember - in Czech Republic there was done an official sience work done on the Prague University which tested genetic of Saarloos, Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and German Shepherd Dogs. It is already possible to check if an animal is a purebreed CsW or if it is a cross with an other breed. Even if there are 10 or 20 generations gone from the false mating. If you will not stop it now and the mixes will spread among the French population it can come the time when the DNA test will be done and there will be proofs that one or two of the French line is a Malamute-American Wolf-CsW mix (as we can observe it now) and it will not affect 20-30 dogs like today but it can cause that the whole French pupulation will be marked as "not purebreed" wolfdogs (or simple said "!!!MIXES!!!"). It is only your choice what you will make about it. We will collect the information about all French mixes. One day the after the DNA test all the LINES will be marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIXES" (what they areally are). |
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27-05-2011, 16:42
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Marseille
Posts: 601
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Quote:
Vaya Kyba  Ou encore Voice of Wolf  Photo de Doz adulte, je suis désolé mais elle a le même masque et la même forme de tete que Voice 
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27-05-2011, 16:55
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#4 | |
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Distinguished Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,336
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Quote:
tout a fait d'accord !!!! la tête moins comment dire ???? douce, voice est un male ne l'oublions pas ... mais la similitude est flagrante   pourtant voice est hyper typé !! pas de mix ?????!!! je penses , je sais k'on va encore me dire "faut ouvrir les yeux ", lol !!! mais les deux extrêmes sont possibles encore chez le clt, typés loup et typés berger... ca me rire kand on voit des clt pas typé et k'on dit c pas des clt kand on en voit des typés c idem, faut savoir ce k'on veut kand même !!! Last edited by bruna; 27-05-2011 at 16:58. |
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27-05-2011, 16:59
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#5 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Marseille
Posts: 601
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Quote:
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27-05-2011, 17:01
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#6 | |
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Distinguished Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,336
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Quote:
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27-05-2011, 17:04
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Haut-Rhin
Posts: 963
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Et bien que les éleveurs tchèques nous indiquent les tests à faire et ou nous devons les envoyer et ainsi nous verront biens les éleveurs ou propriétaire de chiens incriminer qui joueront le jeu.
Car si il est vrai que dans la lignée de ma chienne il y a autre chose que du CLT voir pire du saarloos  alors il faut agir au plus vite. Et j'espère bien que le nom du chien qui à été testé soit communiquer (surtout si il vient de chez moi lol) pour que la portée soit également connu en France et INTERDIT de reproduction !!!c'est comme pour la myélopathie ou le nanisme, personne n'est à l'abri d'un soucis de santé sur la lignée qu'il utilise,ou d'une retrempe de l'éleveur, mais il suffit de faire tester ces chiens et de faire les mariages en connaissance pour les maladies, et la stérilisation pour les mélanges, mais arrêter de jouer à l'autruche!!!! car avec ces conneries c'est toute la race qui en prend un coup !!!!
__________________
 Traite ton chien en humain, et il te traitera en chien http://www.educateur-canin-haut-rhin.fr |
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28-05-2011, 02:29
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#8 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 583
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Quote:
"V" z Molu Es have in the most cases too heavy heads  are strong and rather short legged  and overangulated  Vendetta has all these faults togehter is overangulated, with too short legs, to heavy head. And from such female you get Doz which has totally different body, head and structure.  I wrote about Vendetta's puppies - dogs which are in Finland are hidden by the owners who are too afraid to show them to public, one dog was imported to France, one lives by the Mutara_mix breeder in Italy. My question is: why these breeders imported expensive puppies of a very poor quality female and from an unknown kennel if they have much better dogs in their kennels and in their countries? Are they stupid? NO. You know why? They were sure the puppies will not be similar to the bad mother because they will be not Czechoslovakain Wolfdogs but mixes. Anyway maybe a beginner do not see any differences between Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and these mixes. Maybe you want to believe they are purebreed but I received toons of emails from Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia criticizing the illegal mixes. Not even one person is protecting these dogs - they even want to list all these "untypical" dogs as mixes. The arguments I listed you I get from really experienced breeders. Because all these breeders who breed CsW longer time clearly see the cheating of pedigrees. I think French people are the only who still believe that these dogs are "good work of French breeders". About facts: / mutts beed by Italian kennels "Passo del Lupo", "Foresta Incantata", (priv. Vityuhova) are offsprings of "Muratas" (white wolf-gsd-malamute-something mixes). It is official - nobody hide it. / the DNA test was done of the "U" de Louba Tar dog. It is Saarloos-cross and all offsprings of the "U"-litter are marked now as "Saarloos_mixes". I was informed about other crosses in this kennel - but the dogs are under "investigation" but not DNA tested till now. / Finish "D" litter is not purebreed also. After the topic on the English forum (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16436) when the Finish breeder started to remove all proves from her web site to hide all wolves and their similarity with the "D" litter we started to investigate also this case and the Czech source which approved the fact that the "Mutara"-group work with this kennel also. I will ask the person which sent us very well documented proves to publish them on the forum. / There are French litters which also differ to much from the CsW look - show untypical colors which never appeared by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs; show untypical double-coloured-Saarloos masks which do not exist by CsW and have other characteristics which are typical for Saarloos or American-Wolf crosses but not for this breed. We will try to make DNA tests also of these dogs. If the doubts will be confirmed -. there will be more lines marked with "MIX". |
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