Ugly feminine males...

[elf]

What's important in such case is not the boundaries but the mean and standard deviation of the distribution weight curve shape, if you have those informations I would be eager to learn it... especially for CSV, thanks.

[Denial]

This doesn't mean that humas go from 50 cm to 230 cm, as like 90% of male population goes from 170 to 190 cmq, and almost the same thing is for weight as obesity is not a big problem in nature.
But this topic is much about whining then numbers.

[Silvester]

Hey Denial,

this is really a great picture !!!
By the way: Do you know these two people on the photo personally?

May be YOU made the photo ??

( I guess the woman is the "type" of long legged and slim like most people here prefer for the dogs....just like Bux. But she´s a little extreme...)

Ok, one can also see that this woman is a very feminine type...only because of long legs of course...!

Best regards from Germany

[Monika]

Originally Posted by Denial

This doesn't mean that humas go from 50 cm to 230 cm, as like 90% of male population goes from 170 to 190 cmq, and almost the same thing is for weight as obesity is not a big problem in nature.
But this topic is much about whining then numbers.

....sorry, but we are comparing healthy animals...not with the genetic mutation or growth failure.. Abou dwarf is another forum....

[fenris]

It is interesting to see this dog in relation to his forefathers (father: Cezar od Pavlina, grandfather: Rep z Pohranieni) and his offspring (son: Cino z Rosikova). It would be very interesting to see from the participants in this discussion some comments on his son Cino z Rosikova and his father Cezar - and the relationship in types. Fenris

[massimo]

It seems we are going out of topic in some posts.
Bux,the dog, I have NEVER seen in real life.
Monika's links on dog shows are interesting to determine that he was NOT a great show dog, this is a fact.
Maybe problem was character?
Another fact is that he had an amazingly beautiful head. One of the best heads i've ever seen.
This DOESN'T mean he is the best stud one can use.
The best head i've ever seen is surely Galiba Crying wolf.
AGAIN, this doesn't mean he is the best stud one can use.
In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.
I will never forget showing a friend (I hope I can still call her that way) some great fotos of a CSW...and she was honestly impressed.
When she saw the dog in real life....her impression was TOTALLY different.

The "health" topic is for me of fundamental importance.
Here I must agree with Monika.
I prefer breeding healthy dogs within standard but not SUPER wolf looking with a life expectation of many years than a CSW who is very very wolfish but with weak health structure.
I have NO DOUBT about that.
We should not forget we are playing with the lives of creatures who learn to love and be loved by us...we cannot risk their lives, we are no longer in the "military-hartl" regime when the breed was born and non appropriate dogs could be buried in huge quantities.
I HATE breeders who "risk" on health of CSWs...using extreem inbreeding or dogs who have produced several displasic puppies or a very displasic dog himself.
I know breeding is a "risk" but some risks are calculated and others not...you can "expect" some consequences of your own risks.
I have a prayer, my greatest prayer is that my dogs live a long healthy life, and die as late as possible, as I pray that my displasic dog will never suffer.

Returning to the topic, from what I see in photos Bux is an extraordinary looking CSW.
Maybe his constitution is not VERY strong or firm, but I am sure that ALL, even Monika would agree with me that it would have been worth using him more than just once with the right female to see if it was possible to get out from this dog the same head and improve the body structure.
After all, that is the main goal of a breeder...to "produce" an improved CSW from already excellent ones...

[Hanka]

In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.

Massimo, write it by red colour and very big font. Maybe this:
In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.

And now, tell me, how much breeders do it. I think, not much. Everybody look at WD gallery, he see wolfish head and travel to male only for it. Not matter male is shy or he has tragical movement.....On foto is super wolfish type, so pups will look like wolf too. Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

Hanka, what you say is right but shyness is NOT only a genetic factor, it ALSO depends on how the dog was brought up.
I have read your opinions on character on other threads and cannot say I agree 100% with you (photo of dog with tail under belly=shy dog...not true!)
But yes, character, structure, bloodline make a CSW...not just head, in this 100% agreement.

[woland77]

Originally Posted by Hanka

I think, not much. Everybody look at WD gallery, he see wolfish head and travel to male only for it. Not matter male is shy or he has tragical movement.....On foto is super wolfish type, so pups will look like wolf too. Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

Hanka, you could not better describe the thought of CZW breeding in Italy...and more, on italian forum you can read: "Czw without typical wolfish mistrust, is not a good CZW...the most important is wolfish look, light eyes, short ears, large head...all others request of standard is not important.."

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by massimo

Monika's links on dog shows are interesting to determine that he was NOT a great show dog, this is a fact.

hello Massimo,

the criteria of beauty in exposure change so much with time and a judge with other that he is, I think, very difficult to advance things similar ......

That would have can be been different if he had been judged by other judges ....... after what I read, and remarks that heard at the time of the visit a judge in France relating to Kondor, I wonder whether his affix was not also a problem .....

[Monika]

Originally Posted by elf

What's important in such case is not the boundaries but the mean and standard deviation of the distribution weight curve shape, if you have those informations I would be eager to learn it... especially for CSV, thanks.

University of Agriculture in Prague and her students worked as a bachelor and engineering several topics related to CSWs. Concern the processing of metric´ s data and the heredity of character of CSWs.
University scientists received also a grant for research and compare DNA CSW, SAW and Wolves.
None of the work does not cater for the mass - weight of animals :0(
In any action relating to the CSWs does not record the weight,
there is nothing to process. Maybe it's a good type.
In my experience the weight of females ranges from 25 to 33 kg. Constitutionally weak females are about 23 kg. In males,
the weight ranges from 32 to 40 kg.
We are talking about healthy animals in "show condition."

One of the hardest CSW, which I knew was Freeking, but he was late in life much fat - weighed 60 kg.
If he was fit he had 46 -50 kilograms he lived 13 years.

Witch Soukupová, still

[elf]

Originally Posted by Monika

University of Agriculture in Prague and her students worked as a bachelor and engineering several topics related to CSWs. Concern the processing of metric´ s data and the heredity of character of CSWs.
University scientists received also a grant for research and compare DNA CSW, SAW and Wolves.

Thanks. Would it be possible to access those papers ?

[Monika]

Originally Posted by elf

Thanks. Would it be possible to access those papers ?

One of the best works about the character of CSWs created by Jindřich Jedlicka as work diploma.
Jindra has never not publish on Wolfdog. org. Work is private property, I have it in a bound form but I respect his opinion.
Jindra is one of the best experts on CSWs as a managed data and information processing failed after no one.
Try to contact him personally - kennel : Šedá eminence.

Work and publishing rights about DNA include the University of Prague, though the results were sent to me, because I took part in a collection of samples, I van not publish here also nothing, sorry.


For Mikael

Sangria - is a dog entered in the Register FCI and if you look in his registry he had 3 generations empty.
These animals can be exhibit! Judge never know which of the animals has pedigree and is registered in the Registr. only.
The Judge is required to judge the exterior, under the applicable standard, nothing more and nothing less.
It is very strictly forbidden to be interested about the origins animals before the jugement.
Is breed what have World dog winner with registr, only.

The book of origin of CSW is open and write to the Register is legal!

As registry FCI work let everyone find myself ... I'm tired.

It is very funny to observe how the fanatical Margo " lights up and catch the first primed " only hear the words Mutara.

3 Registers in the CR - ČMKU had entered by Mr. Hartl. Without his signature would not be possible, at all and he knew why.
It is very stupid to think, that he decided " our and his " breed CSW to discarded!

I think, those who advocate as violently strong inbreeding and condemn Registr, knows absolutely nothing about genetics and breeding, as such, and publication of any scientific papers and a comparison here is - insignificant.
Hereby apologize to all, which is not the last word.

Everyone has the right to choose and it is easy to see the pedigree and the register and to separate them from each other.

Best greetings
Witch Soukupová

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Monika

The book of origin of CSW is open and write to the Register is legal!

As registry FCI work let everyone find myself ... I'm tired.

It is very funny to observe how the fanatical Margo " lights up and catch the first primed " only hear the words Mutara.

FCI judge and now again such words..... GREAT WORK AGAIN!
As CzW breeder and FCI judge you REALLY do not see anything wrong on it... For you it is really nothing wrong if people cheat, lie and brake the FCI regulations?!?!?

Of course EVERYBODY can mix wolfdogs. With whippets, shepherds, chihuahuas, beagles, with every possible dog. And the so called "breeders" of such mixes will find a country where they will be able to register their "exotic Wolfdogs"...

BUT - DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SAY IT IS RIGHT! That it is FAIR. So please READ the first words of the "STATUTES OF THE FCI"

The aims of the FCI are:
(1) to encourage and promote the breeding and use of purebred dogs whose functional health and physical features meet the standard set for each respective breed and which are able to work and to carry out different functions in accordance with the specific characteristics of their breed;
(2) to protect the use, the keeping and the breeding of purebred dogs in the countries where the FCI has a member or a contract partner ; to support the non-profit exchange of dogs and of cynological information between the members and to initiate the organization of shows, tests, trials and other activities like sport events, the use of dogs in rescue operations, etc.
(3) to promote and support dogdom and dog welfare worldwide

FCI is made for breeding PUREBRED dogs. Not for cheaters producing mixes and mutts.... Even if the producers are able to find backdors to register their mutts and get pedigrees for them (according or against the national regulations).

I think you are forgeting one really important thing - you are FCI JUDGE.

FCI judge of THIS organization: http://www.fci.be/ and NOT of this one: http://www.newsworldfci.com/. It really seems you get lost and you promote the rules of the "wrong" FCI organization...

[Monika]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

FCI judge and now again such words..... GREAT WORK AGAIN!
As CzW breeder and FCI judge you REALLY do not see anything wrong on it... For you it is really nothing wrong if people cheat, lie and brake the FCI regulations?!?!?

Of course EVERYBODY can mix wolfdogs. With whippets, shepherds, chihuahuas, beagles, with every possible dog. And the so called "breeders" of such mixes will find a country where they will be able to register their "exotic Wolfdogs"...

BUT - DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SAY IT IS RIGHT! That it is FAIR. So please READ the first words of the "STATUTES OF THE FCI"

The aims of the FCI are:
(1) to encourage and promote the breeding and use of purebred dogs whose functional health and physical features meet the standard set for each respective breed and which are able to work and to carry out different functions in accordance with the specific characteristics of their breed;
(2) to protect the use, the keeping and the breeding of purebred dogs in the countries where the FCI has a member or a contract partner ; to support the non-profit exchange of dogs and of cynological information between the members and to initiate the organization of shows, tests, trials and other activities like sport events, the use of dogs in rescue operations, etc.
(3) to promote and support dogdom and dog welfare worldwide

FCI is made for breeding PUREBRED dogs. Not for cheaters producing mixes and mutts.... Even if the producers are able to find backdors to register their mutts and get pedigrees for them (according or against the national regulations).

I think you are forgeting one really important thing - you are FCI JUDGE.

FCI judge of THIS organization: http://www.fci.be/ and NOT of this one: http://www.newsworldfci.com/. It really seems you get lost and you promote the rules of the "wrong" FCI organization...

Your behavior is beyond the boundary of decent behavior and to limit the law also.

You are One from hundreds of CSW breeders nothing more and Wolfdog. org is no official medium any FCI organization!

Register FCI leaves me cold, my role and accomplishments in their birth, and registration is zero, I do not have any particular interest, however, interested me in terms of breeding, and never for me, can not run a hysterical reaction and grafomania attack, as in you and that's the difference between me and you!

I am zootechnik no PC expert.

Hybridize CSV with whippet or the beagle and ask for their inclusion in the register CSW??? But you can try it!:

Use your graphomania and write questions about (for you problematic) the register on ČMKU, ENCI and FCI!
Their reply, without handling insert here, it can be helpful and clear.

All other speculation, lies and slander attacking just talking about your outstanding character and fanaticism, only.

Witch Soukupová

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Monika

Hybridize CSV with whippet or the beagle and ask for their inclusion in the register CSW??? But you can try it!:

Why do you WONDER? Why do you SMILE? Why do you so sceptical? You have done already something much WORSER!

If I mix my CzW with beagle I will get puppies which will have 50% of blood of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.
And YOU were able to register by CMKU and later by ENCI dogs which have 0% of blood of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.

So if it was possible to register Mutaras (which have 0% similarities to this breed) for sure it will be much easier to register beagle-CzW mixes which will have 50% genetical similarity to CzW....
If ENCI and CMKU registered Mutaras now they MUST agree to register mixes which are much more "Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs alike"...

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Monika

For Mikael...

Thanks, but it was not really me asking the question, it was Martiou.
And I do not think you did answer it, the question was...

Originally Posted by Martiou.
I saw this dog, and I always wonder how judges can give the excellent ones and titles to this type of dog, I am not expert...

Or is your answer that you did give this dog excellent because of that you can not tell the different if no one shows you the pedigree first ???

You seriously mean I and Martiou that is absolutely by far no experts on the breed, can se that something is not really as it suppose to be whit this dog !!! But you as a breed expert need to se the pedigree to know the dog is not excellent or even not a CsV
???

Sad regards / Mikael