Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

elf · 30/05/2011, 14h26

One french breeder had the surprise to see red (Saarloos color alike) puppies in the litter Thalia Crying Wolf x Sibir Crying Wolf.

Ever happened to any other breeders ? (Send me an email if you prefer [email protected] )

yukidomari · 30/05/2011, 20h23

Do you have any photos? Do you mean reddish like Belke Outlaws Heaven?

martiou07 · 30/05/2011, 20h39

Citation:

Envoyé par yukidomari

Do you have any photos? Do you mean reddish like Belke Outlaws Heaven?

no, red color typic Saarloos :

Other problem, it's not secret, we have also other dog in France, typic mix, same origin this mariage.

What do you think ???

All people, we like CSW, what let us can be done???

massimo · 30/05/2011, 21h49

Slowly....slowly... strange results from normal mating start appearing.
Till they are super wolfish everybody is happy (although they are just as unlikely to be real)..but when they come out with a beautiful Saarlos red, people start worrying.

For those who didn't understand what I meant in THIS POST....maybe now you understand!

Solution? EASY!! DNA TEST....without consent of breeder...unofficial.
I don't trust "certain" breeders anymore.
I dont know Lorry and cannot say anything good or bad about her.
Just know that Vorss is owned by her and Vorss sons look strange too...

Martiou, funny thing is that with these "strange" breeding results in france, purchase is INCREASING , not decreasing, which means that the brain of the buyers are getting smaller and smaller...

martiou07 · 30/05/2011, 21h59

Hello Massimo,

there are DNA test, Thalia and Sibir are good parents ....

What do you think ?????

the big problem now is that touches a very known breeding…. On the English forum we have participants of all nationalities, I would like to have your opinions ..... The French livestock has a very bad reputation, normal, much of very atypical dog… these dogs are for the majority of the descendants of breeding of Sibir and Thalia…. there is what to raise questions ..... no ?

saschia · 31/05/2011, 09h31

Very surprising color. Well, the two dogs are closely related, Sibir being Thalia's uncle on both sides, but still even in close inbreeding I would not expect that color on CSW.

Mikael · 31/05/2011, 22h08

Citation:

Envoyé par massimo

For those who didn't understand what I meant in THIS POST....maybe now you understand!

Or if they want to understand, maybee this one is better >>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...ighlight=mixes

Best regards / M

mijke · 01/06/2011, 02h41

Who of all wolfdog forum readers did ever see this red (saarloos alike red color with brown nose) before in a CsW litter?

I am only intersted in what you did see (not in names or blaming breeders)

)
Because mutations can always appear in every breed!

Torsten · 19/06/2011, 16h29

I saw seen never twh with so weak red color and perhaps also still red nose… that is strange
Saarloos crossing is not good for TWH - it is the beginning of the end

admin · 08/09/2011, 02h00

Do you have any news about solving of the problem of the possible Saarloos mixes by Crying Wolf?

I received several litter advertising where breeders use the suspected lines (similar to the "red" lines from France - http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18510). What is strange form me that on the list are also breeders from the origin countries....

Anyway we have our doubts if we should advertise the litters here on Wolfdog.org till the story will be finally solved.
Nobody of us want to be responsible for the situation where puppy buyers will get a mixed breed puppy with the "help" of Wolfdog.org.

Priska182 · 08/09/2011, 02h36

So, if a dog is potentially a mix you don't post on wolfdog advertisement for possible litter from this suspect dog right?

yukidomari · 08/09/2011, 04h05

What about a special tag 'under investigation' or so? i agree it's a tricky situation! i'm disappointed to learn from reading other language forums that the origin kennel Crying Wolf is not cooperating with DNA requests.

Shadowlands · 08/09/2011, 08h25

Like Yukidomari, I am upset that they are not carrying out DNA tests - simple, inexpensive and would put everyone at ease (or let everyone know what is going on - perhaps this is the problem?) Until they carry out these simple tests, there is a big question mark hanging over the breed as a lot of dogs are now derived from these suspect litters.

It would be so nice to have a conclusion so that everyone can move forwards in confidence.

tupacs2legs · 08/09/2011, 11h27

Citation:

Envoyé par Shadowlands

Like Yukidomari, I am upset that they are not carrying out DNA tests - simple, inexpensive and would put everyone at ease (or let everyone know what is going on - perhaps this is the problem?) Until they carry out these simple tests, there is a big question mark hanging over the breed as a lot of dogs are now derived from these suspect litters.

It would be so nice to have a conclusion so that everyone can move forwards in confidence.

its very 'suspect' ...i cannot understand why they do not want to clear their kennel name.....i know i would! odd

admin · 08/09/2011, 12h08

Citation:

Envoyé par Priska182

So, if a dog is potentially a mix you don't post on wolfdog advertisement for possible litter from this suspect dog right?

It is what we a planning to do. At the moment there are some "suspected" litters on the list (for example Galiba offsprings).

I was hoping that the problem is solved or any steps have breed taken to clarify it.

Citation:

Envoyé par yukidomari

What about a special tag 'under investigation' or so?

We were thinking about it - but it can cause much bigger protests of the breeders using "suspected" dogs than removing the litters.

Hanka · 08/09/2011, 13h08

I see, you write about my pups. What is "suspected" on Galiba?

admin · 08/09/2011, 13h22

I was not writing about your puppies. Anyway not only....

Citation:

Envoyé par Hanka

What is "suspected" on Galiba?

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...02345&langid=1

There are more breeders writing - also here on forum - that the Galiba offsprings look more like Saarloos-alike (for example: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9708). And the French case of the red Wolfdogs seems to be a proof for it.

And the fear of the Crying Wolf breeder of making the DNA tests shows that there is really something wrong going on there.

z Peronówki · 05/03/2015, 19h42

A very "interesting" puppy from Hungary. Seems to be another case of a "red" Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (read: Saarloos x CzW mix).

z Peronówki · 05/03/2015, 19h43

It seems the problem with red "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" (read: Saarloos mixes) from Hungary is bigger than anybody thought... One more advertisement with "red nose" puppies....
http://olx.hu/hirdetes/cseh-farkas-k...tml#275ff0e6d6

At a younger age

You can read more about the Hungarian Saarlos mixes here:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18510

yukidomari · 05/03/2015, 20h03

it isn't only that there are apparent mixes born... which unfortunately happens all the time, whether by accident or what.. but at least in the case of the 2nd post, the puppies are purportedly recognized and FCI papered as purebred CzW.. the sire is even advertised as Junior CzW Champion of Hungary.

while the parents as pictured in the link appear like normal CzW, dilute coloration of the puppies' liver noses assumes that both parents are carriers of dilution loci not existing in purebred CzW... strongly suggesting the parents themselves are multi-generation mixes who had gone undetected ..

30/05/2011, 14h26	#1
elf Member Date d'inscription: October 2006 Messages: 766	Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored) One french breeder had the surprise to see red (Saarloos color alike) puppies in the litter Thalia Crying Wolf x Sibir Crying Wolf. Ever happened to any other breeders ? (Send me an email if you prefer [email protected] ) __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

30/05/2011, 21h49	#4
massimo Senior Member Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Prague 6 Messages: 2 090	Slowly....slowly... strange results from normal mating start appearing. Till they are super wolfish everybody is happy (although they are just as unlikely to be real)..but when they come out with a beautiful Saarlos red, people start worrying. For those who didn't understand what I meant in THIS POST....maybe now you understand! Solution? EASY!! DNA TEST....without consent of breeder...unofficial. I don't trust "certain" breeders anymore. I dont know Lorry and cannot say anything good or bad about her. Just know that Vorss is owned by her and Vorss sons look strange too... Martiou, funny thing is that with these "strange" breeding results in france, purchase is INCREASING , not decreasing, which means that the brain of the buyers are getting smaller and smaller... __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

30/05/2011, 21h59	#5
martiou07 Moderator Date d'inscription: September 2004 Localisation: France Messages: 1 986	Hello Massimo, there are DNA test, Thalia and Sibir are good parents .... What do you think ????? the big problem now is that touches a very known breeding…. On the English forum we have participants of all nationalities, I would like to have your opinions ..... The French livestock has a very bad reputation, normal, much of very atypical dog… these dogs are for the majority of the descendants of breeding of Sibir and Thalia…. there is what to raise questions ..... no ? __________________

31/05/2011, 09h31	#6
saschia Member Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Bratislava Messages: 936	Very surprising color. Well, the two dogs are closely related, Sibir being Thalia's uncle on both sides, but still even in close inbreeding I would not expect that color on CSW. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

01/06/2011, 02h41	#8
mijke Senior Member Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Warnsveld Messages: 2 033	Who of all wolfdog forum readers did ever see this red (saarloos alike red color with brown nose) before in a CsW litter? I am only intersted in what you did see (not in names or blaming breeders) ) Because mutations can always appear in every breed! __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

30/05/2011, 20h23	#2
yukidomari Moderator Date d'inscription: March 2010 Localisation: Los Angeles CA Messages: 847	Do you have any photos? Do you mean reddish like Belke Outlaws Heaven?

19/06/2011, 16h29	#9
Torsten Senior Member/ Dude Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Thüringen - East Germany Messages: 2 837	I saw seen never twh with so weak red color and perhaps also still red nose… that is strange Saarloos crossing is not good for TWH - it is the beginning of the end __________________ es ist egal gegen Wen oder Was man kämpft, wichtig ist Wofür...! Lieber stehend sterben – als knieend leben ! http://www.wolfs-hunde.com Dernière modification par Torsten ; 19/06/2011 à 16h39

08/09/2011, 02h00	#10
admin Moderator Date d'inscription: September 2004 Messages: 583	Any news about mixes by Crying Wolf? Do you have any news about solving of the problem of the possible Saarloos mixes by Crying Wolf? I received several litter advertising where breeders use the suspected lines (similar to the "red" lines from France - http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18510). What is strange form me that on the list are also breeders from the origin countries.... Anyway we have our doubts if we should advertise the litters here on Wolfdog.org till the story will be finally solved. Nobody of us want to be responsible for the situation where puppy buyers will get a mixed breed puppy with the "help" of Wolfdog.org.

08/09/2011, 02h36	#11
Priska182 Canadian Member Date d'inscription: January 2008 Localisation: Montréal Messages: 423	So, if a dog is potentially a mix you don't post on wolfdog advertisement for possible litter from this suspect dog right? __________________ Stéphanie www.inugami.ca

08/09/2011, 04h05	#12
yukidomari Moderator Date d'inscription: March 2010 Localisation: Los Angeles CA Messages: 847	What about a special tag 'under investigation' or so? i agree it's a tricky situation! i'm disappointed to learn from reading other language forums that the origin kennel Crying Wolf is not cooperating with DNA requests.

08/09/2011, 08h25	#13
Shadowlands Junior Member Date d'inscription: November 2009 Localisation: Vidin Messages: 391	Like Yukidomari, I am upset that they are not carrying out DNA tests - simple, inexpensive and would put everyone at ease (or let everyone know what is going on - perhaps this is the problem?) Until they carry out these simple tests, there is a big question mark hanging over the breed as a lot of dogs are now derived from these suspect litters. It would be so nice to have a conclusion so that everyone can move forwards in confidence.

08/09/2011, 13h08	#16
Hanka Senior Member Date d'inscription: November 2003 Localisation: Kadaň Messages: 1 622	I see, you write about my pups. What is "suspected" on Galiba?

05/03/2015, 19h42	#18
z Peronówki VIP Member Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Późna Messages: 6 996	More cases of red "Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs" (Saarloos mixes) in Hungary... A very "interesting" puppy from Hungary. Seems to be another case of a "red" Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (read: Saarloos x CzW mix). __________________ . 'Z PERONÓWKI' FACEBOOK GROUP

05/03/2015, 19h43	#19
z Peronówki VIP Member Date d'inscription: September 2003 Localisation: Późna Messages: 6 996	It seems the problem with red "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" (read: Saarloos mixes) from Hungary is bigger than anybody thought... One more advertisement with "red nose" puppies.... http://olx.hu/hirdetes/cseh-farkas-k...tml#275ff0e6d6 At a younger age You can read more about the Hungarian Saarlos mixes here: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18510 __________________ . 'Z PERONÓWKI' FACEBOOK GROUP Dernière modification par z Peronówki ; 05/03/2015 à 20h48

05/03/2015, 20h03	#20
yukidomari Moderator Date d'inscription: March 2010 Localisation: Los Angeles CA Messages: 847	it isn't only that there are apparent mixes born... which unfortunately happens all the time, whether by accident or what.. but at least in the case of the 2nd post, the puppies are purportedly recognized and FCI papered as purebred CzW.. the sire is even advertised as Junior CzW Champion of Hungary. while the parents as pictured in the link appear like normal CzW, dilute coloration of the puppies' liver noses assumes that both parents are carriers of dilution loci not existing in purebred CzW... strongly suggesting the parents themselves are multi-generation mixes who had gone undetected .. __________________ "Learn to do well; seek judgment." www.greyfarer.com/