World Dog Show 2011

[Morian]

now i'm talking with a person from russia which saw only 1 csv alive, and now she saw these videos... she says "wolfdogs are shy" and it's impossible to change her mind. and she is only one from tens or thousands from all who saw this show. thanks to all breeders and owners for such presentation of the breed

[admin]

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

Who is this dog? (On the right, closest to the camera).

I can tell who it is not - it is NOT a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Of course, she only have small defects according to the standard.

Yes, and the "small" fault is called "not purebreed CsW".

[admin]

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

I had a look at the databace pictures. It's interesting to compare the profiles of the dogs; the shape of the scull and the muzzle.
According to the databace, this is the sire (Volos Crying Wolf) of the dog pictured above (D'Eyden De La Louve Blanche):

Yes, it is interesting to see that the dogs do not match. It is easily visible that D'Eyden De La Louve Blanche has nothing common with her "ancestors"... No wonder...

[r0d]

Video Part 3 is now available: http://follow.confrerie-lupoide.fr/w...w-2011-a-paris

[jmvdwiel]

Can someone explain to me why those males are so docile to each other? The most shows where I have competed the males where more showing of to each other.
Is it only practise makes perfect? Than we would like to follow some classes

greetings judith

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Dogs Shows, are like it was written above, only shows!!! They are entertainment for visitors, dog owners, dogs (sometimes, lol) and judges. These are not "God" shows.

Christian

Hi Chris,
The problem is just that to most breeders these days the dogs shows represent the most important mesurement of a dog's quality. Titles, titles, titles... that's what they are after. Nothing else matters, or if something else matters even a little, it is still compromised to show success.
And we all know where this has lead. Just look at the dog breeds (or lines in certain breeds) bred only the showing purposes in mind... they are like flowers or design sofas; -for decorative purposes to people who want to collect nice things around them and show them off to others.
Many are unhealthy both physically and mentally. To me it only looks funny and sad at the same time to watch people dragging their dogs around a small ring to some other person to pick who he/she likes best, and to claim that this has something to do with breeding better quality animals.
This has absolutely nothing to do with breeding healthier companion animals, not to mention better working dogs!

I think the dogs were healthier and happier if we would go back in time before people decided to split dogs into these closed breed populations and start showing them around to see how well some person thinks they fit into that man made standard. We used to have perfect canines for different tasks to help us, to serve us, to keep us company. Now we have sad, sick animals suffering from hereditary defects and narrow gene pool.

I think the whole dog showing system should be changed into a totally different from what it is and has been. There should only be breed specialists judging the dogs, and only a certain amount of individuals per day per judge so that there would be enough time for each individual. And the evaluation should be more thorough; not only few rounds in the ring. More value on the behaviour atleast, and more movement.

Just my honest opinion...

[r0d]

7 videos from the WDS are now available.

The link is still the same: http://follow.confrerie-lupoide.fr/w...w-2011-a-paris

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by r0d

7 videos from the WDS are now available.

The link is still the same: http://follow.confrerie-lupoide.fr/w...w-2011-a-paris

thanks you very much

[r0d]

wolfin: you're welcome

Jennin Lauma: i said it a lot of time when i was at the WDS: dogs shows are not a place for... dogs
I don't like dog shows in a "dog point of view" but it was a good way for me to meet a lot of people in 2 days, people i speak with since a long time on the forum. At the WDS there was dogs and people i wanted to meet.
Of course i prefere seeing dogs runing in the woods.
I know some of the dogs that where at the WDS in a different environnement (i mean walking/hiking/playing/spending time with them).
I didn't recognize some of them when they where in front of the judge.
In that way i understand when you say "the whole dog showing system should be changed into a totally different from what it is".
Not just about how a dog is judged, but also how it spend his day at the show because is so sad...

One day i will have to bring my dog at a dog show in order for him to be confirmed (i'm not sure the word is correct but i mean they will say "this dog is ok for breeding" (or not...)) but i won't bring him there with a lot of joy knowing what a day for dogs in a show is...
But still... it will be the "best" way to show my dog to other breeders and to meet other breeders and others dogs (because i want to adopt one more ).
I'm not sure if i'm really clear

I don't like dog shows, but i haven't found a better way to meet so many people and dogs in only one or two days.
But for sure, the day i will bring my dog in a show i will hate shows a little more...

BTW i love your dog called Perro

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by r0d

but i haven't found a better way to meet so many people and dogs in only one or two days.

Yes, dog shows bring alot of people and dogs together under the same roof. But also as my opinion, it is not the best place to meet dogs nor people. It is one way for sure, yes. But not the best since it is hectic, noisy, and stressfull environment. People are busy and the dogs are nervous. --> Not the best atmosphere to have conversations. I would prefer gatherings/meetings instead, and also personal visits to breeders.
If there were nolonger dog shows like there is today, I'm sure people would have other kind of gatherings / action days.
And I think it would be so much better idea to have these non competetive evaluations where the dogs are not competing against each other for placements, but only evaluated by the judge/judges (why not more than one!).

Originally Posted by r0d

BTW i love your dog called Perro

I love him too very much

[hanninadina]

@Uli, I will tell you another concrete example why every dog show is werth no matter if special judge or not. During the mid 2000 I did some shows with my Myla and I often were in the same ring with the grandmother of your dog from mothers side. And two times I noticed that she did not want that the judge looked in her teeth - and she tried to bite him! Of course she was disqualified. So no matter if special judge or not everybody could see about her behaviour that she was unsecure and not self confident - but of course marvellous wolfy looking. And as I wrote already a good csw has a strong character - and he/she would not react like this. And it was not only a matter of wrong education but a bit from genetic point of view too, because her brother must put down to sleep with not 5 years old because he was heavily attacking people (even his breeder and friend of the former owner).Jenny of course dog shows are only beauty shows and has not a lot to do with health. There are some breeds where they look a lot for health during bonitation.A good dog will be in front of classement in dog show with special judge as well as with a normal judge. And sorry even special judges make a lot of faults - that is good because they are not gods. Please look at the winner of open class males 2009 in World Dog Show, it was a csw x awd. And not only this judged did not get it but other special judges who judged him during other specialities did not get it. I talked to them and they told me, so long the dog fits in the standard, I could not do anything.In the end everybody of us has a different sight what is nice and not. It must fit in the standard and then there will be small differences.@Saschia, of course most csw who will take part at a big dog show in a hall will not have any problems. If the owner is cool they will do like their owners. So from my point of view it is nothing special to go with dogs to a show. I often went only as a guest with my dogs. Jenni, dog shows are a good possibility to meet same breed dog lovers. Especially when you are a newby in the breed. Later when you know the people, breeders and dogs, one can go and meet them on different locations. But Dogshows are one part of recognized breeds! And of course an important part. Otherwise I do not know why people would like to have a pure breed dog? There are of course people who do not care for pure breed and these are a lot more. Look in germany we have about 750.000 purebreed members of vdh (FCI) but more than 6-7 Millions without. So it is a small world of pure breed dogs in the whole dog world.Christian

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Jenni, dog shows are a good possibility to meet same breed dog lovers. Especially when you are a newby in the breed. Later when you know the people, breeders and dogs, one can go and meet them on different locations.
And of course an important part. Otherwise I do not know why people would like to have a pure breed dog?

Yes, shows are one place to meet lots of dogs, breeders and other owners. And I have said that this is one of the good sides in shows. But I also said that if there were no shows at all or they would be different from what they are now, I'm sure that there would still be many ways to meet other people & their dogs. And most importantly, I think different kind of shows could serve the audience even better.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

But Dogshows are one part of recognized breeds!

Well, practically this is true. Dog shows are and have been for a long time a big part (if not the base) of Kennel Clubs and breeding recognized breeds. But my point is that the shows themselves are not important (but for entertainment maybe). What matters is the typical looks according to the breed standard. And for evaluating pure bred dog against the standard we do not need beauty competitions like most shows are at the moment.

I think it would serve the breeding of pure bred dogs better if we'de have different kind of 'breed type evaluation events' (shows). -Only breed specific, no allrounder judges, and no breeds competing against each other in group rings & BIS rings etc.
As an example of some most important changes:
I'd prefer to have several breed specialist judges who would evaluate/asses the dog together as a team, and they would write explicit assessments which would also be published for everyone to read. And only a certain maximum number of dogs per day for this judge group to evaluate, so that there would be more time to spend with assessing each dog.
And more movement required! 1-2 rounds in a small ring while the dog is pulling in its leash in panic or out of over excitement should not be the base of evaluating the dog's movements.
To dogs who have several excellent evaluations could be given a special title but there would be even higher title for dogs who also have more results than those from the breed type evaluations / (shows); such as good health and temperament test results.

I think there are lots of things wrong in todays dog breeding, and the dog showing system of the moment is just one of them.
As it comes to 'pure bred dogs' I actually think that there is also lots of things wrong in how the concept of "purity of breeds/races/species" is generally understood. But that's another subject.

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And sorry even special judges make a lot of faults - that is good because they are not gods. Please look at the winner of open class males 2009 in World Dog Show, it was a csw x awd. And not only this judged did not get it but other special judges who judged him during other specialities did not get it.

But the judges at the moment are not trained to recognize different kinds of mixes so it is no wonder that if they haven't personally been around such mixes to develope a keen eye on recognizing them, it's not possible for them to see the difference.
I think that the parental DNA testing should be required before registration in every counrty/Kennel Club around the world and for every breed. This should be the first step as it is the most effective way to prevent mixes/mutts with falcifyed pedigrees.
But I think it could/would also help if the training of judges would be different from what it is at the moment.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

I think that the parental DNA testing should be required before registration in every counrty/Kennel Club around the world and for every breed. This should be the first step as it is the most effective way to prevent mixes/mutts with falcifyed pedigrees.

Yes, I agree

Do you think that you can contakt the Finish Kennel Club and ask them to start whit this on Saarloos and Vlcak´s ??? As Sweden has already started, the FKK and the SKK can work toghether on this and share the results

So if I use a Finish male and he is used before in Finland, the FKK already has he´s DNA tests and they can share it whit SKK And the other way around

We can PM more about this on e-mail or FB...

Best regards / Mikael

[martiou07]

Hello,

yesterday i'm in dog show in my country...

there was this dog :



I see she in world dog show and yesterday.

I see Sangria passo del lupo in 2008 ... mutara ...

for me, D'Eiden is very similar type Mutara.

I don't know what is the crosses, but not real CSW...

For the France, some breeder are very good person and breeder, there is problem in my country yes, same other country ...

do not think either only everyone into insane, the problems worry some people. Warning statements, I am ok, but PLEASE , not accused all breeders, we have serious people here who concerns for future of the breed

For France, soon there should be change .....