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Old 15-03-2012, 12:20   #61
sylvie:)samira:)
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Daiva, I do not speak of the mix or not mix! Stardard or not standard...
I speak that you can not afford to judge, a person who does not know!
She loves her dogs...and where the puppies go to stay
so say whatever you want
but she did not do it for money!
this is not right.
If you want to speak ill of her, do it when you know very well, things and people!!
I close the conversation
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Old 15-03-2012, 12:35   #62
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Originally Posted by sylvie:)samira:) View Post
She loves her dogs...and where the puppies go to stay
so say whatever you want
but she did not do it for money!
This is what it is doing? in order to better for CSV breed? this is JOKE?

There are two evils in the world and one of them is foolish ambition. they kill more breed than the desire for money. if she loves dogs, and breed puppies who called they a breed name, which are not named? Well can simply give them as mixes what they call the CSV.
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Old 15-03-2012, 13:06   #63
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Wolfin,
Ok, thank you for the way I work. I just love my dogs, I want the best for them, I do not want to see my babies abandoned. I will not stand, so I try to choose the perfect owners. And they have tests MD, radios. .
For false papers, we dont know they are false. . .
I am not responsible for the old generations.
ME I m doing DNA testing of my babies with their parents! !!
And everyone must continue to test their babies now! and there will no more problems.


NOW 2012, When a person buy a baby, she must ask parents tests

and all will be well for the future of the breed! !!!!!!!!!!
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Old 15-03-2012, 13:24   #64
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http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...4&postcount=40

Margo there are always ways of exception. And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw. Was Rep a dog? All wolfdogs are dogs, guess you know that.

None of your links work... This advertise from 2005 I do remember very well where Franky took pictures from american wolfdogs or even pure wolves to promote one of his first litters.
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Old 15-03-2012, 13:26   #65
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Thank you Sylvie, it makes me very happy :-) :-)

Daiva knows me a little I think. .

Now I think it is useless to continue this conversation, it will lead to no solution. . .

I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .

Sylvie kiss <3
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Old 15-03-2012, 16:27   #66
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Originally Posted by koomak View Post
I just love my dogs, I want the best for them, I do not want to see my babies abandoned
Gosh I think people who mate dogs for healty die

Quote:
NOW 2012, When a person buy a baby, she must ask parents tests
and all will be well for the future of the breed! !!!!!!!!!!
future with a falsificate documents and blood?

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I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .
I think not

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http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...4&postcount=40

Margo there are always ways of exception. And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw
eee you joke, pure in who? in pedigree- yes in this paper he is pure. in reality? I think not ( and not I alone)
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:37   #67
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
Margo there are always ways of exception.
Yes, but this right have ONLY clubs from the countries of origin - people who created this breed. NOBODY else. Frank can not change it - it is not his property.
Or better: Czech and Slovakian breeders created a breed. What some French breeders do is a forgery. Some kind of "Mercedes made in China" - it seems to be the same but it is not.

BTW Christian, I can really imagine the war which would start if for example Czech breeders will start to change the standard of French Berger de Brie....

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And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw.
No, he is not. His puppies are EXTEMLY untypical. Not ven one is similar to a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. He can be registered as pure Saarloos because his offsprings a very similar to dogs of this breed.

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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
This advertise from 2005 I do remember very well where Franky took pictures from american wolfdogs or even pure wolves to promote one of his first litters.
Christian, look on the facts: friends of Frank (and he also) have American Wolfdogs. He is advertising his litters with photos of American Wolfdogs. Surprisingly his dogs are starting to look like those crosses....
And there are more and more atypical dogs appearing there.

We have two solutions:
The French land is contaminated with radioactive waste and the dogs are mutating there very fast.... (the question is only: why only Franks dog are mutating? ) OR somebody is cheating with the pedigrees....
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:38   #68
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Originally Posted by koomak View Post
I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .
Wait - what is in Reggio? I heard about European CsW Show. But it seems it will be "Csw, crosses and mixes show"....
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:39   #69
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Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

I wrote it several times, with people like you there would be no csw breed! Karel Hartl was an open minded person who tried a new thing - new after Mr. Saarloos.
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:46   #70
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.
That's not my understanding of the word 'breed' and 'pure-breed'.

A CsV is not a Carpathian wolf nor does it need to be closely related to one. It is a dog breed bred from not only Carpathian Wolves but also German Shepherd Dogs. It is a human construct, a man-made dog breed.

And though I don't think I will take any IPO exams with my dog, I still want the dog to have a temperament suitable for working and training in other things. I don't want simply a dog who can stay at home outside of kennels. There are dogs like that already of many companion and toy types.
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:48   #71
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.
Christian - I have no idea what did you heard about his origin but one thing I'm sure. He is not a high percentage cross of EUROPEAN WOLF. He has American blood.

Look on his offsprings:








It is obvious that there is American/Canadian blood inside. If it was a European Wolf which they used to make Demoniak then they mixed it with Husky for sure.

I saw many European Wolves and some of their crosses. NONE look like those animals... I have no idea who told you such lie but kick him...
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:54   #72
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.
very simple, you not are a breed patronat, only one little man.

and it says that Czechoslovakia Wolfdog is only a dog:
u ktorého sú známe všetky generácie predkov ku 1.6.1999
(deň medzinárodného uznania plemena FCI )

English: "by whom all ancestors till 1.06.1999 are known

(it is the date of the international recognition of the breed)"

Simply said: Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog whose all ancestors are known (and whose were registered in 1.06.1999) and come from the OFFICIAL lines.

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No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.
read a FCI standart. one thime second thime - CSW are with working trial.

Quote:
And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.
you make my day ))) I remember you with cry and in runn when he want with you a speak like a guard dog. I understand this saw moore people and you now feel bad, for this - Dog say in who place is your place.

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I wrote it several times, with people like you there would be no csw breed! Karel Hartl was an open minded person who tried a new thing - new after Mr. Saarloos.
oh yes, your type only want a quicker destroid this with who work people about 60 years.
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Old 15-03-2012, 21:54   #73
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Lol, ok ok Margo, hahaha, so I guess I was right and Skog is the father of Demoniak, hahaha.

But to be honest, if you look at the pics from Demoniak and Doz they look almost like brother and sister. Here a pic. And they look on all pics like brother and sister. And I guess, you better know than me, that Doz is a daughter from a carpathian wolf male and a csw.

Wolweryne is a son of CPouchka, who is a daughter of american wolfdog Uncas. That is why he looks in winter coat like typicla american wolfdog.

But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:02   #74
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ah but I very good member a wolf- dog mix in germany who was close in self and runn from a touch. This type behavior mas have your dreams wolfdog in future? for this think mas begin breed a new breed without agresive and strong CSW dogs blood with who you have a problem to control.
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:12   #75
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.
What does a F2 dog behave like? Because if it's anything like most F2s here, it is not suitable for living in the city and going on the bus, to restaurants, public parks, or for taking to train in tracking or detection activities. ..
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:17   #76
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.
No Christian. You can not write this. The breed is not YOUR property. And also not the property of French breeders or anybody else. NOBODY of you can say: we will change the breed!

It was created by Hartl as WORKING breed. And the character is described in the breed standard:
Lively, very active, capable of endurance, docile with quick reactions. Fearless and courageous. Suspicious. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

So you can ONLY breed dogs which match the standard. If you will breed other dogs (with timid, indifferent character) which are only good as sofa dogs - you will breed UNTYPICAL CsWs.

If you, or anybody else do not like this character then there is only one solution: STOP to breed CsW. Switch to Saarloos or create an own breed.

An example - if you will buy a Ferrari and you will decide that the car is "DANGEROUS" because it is TOO FAST. And you will change the engine: if you will remove the 620HP engine and you will put there the Daewoo Tico 41HP motor and later you will try to sell this car as "better - more safe - version of Ferrari" believe me: the Ferrari company will sue you! You know why... Because what you are selling is no more a Ferrari but a counterfeit of Ferrari.

The same with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. It was a project done by the Czechoslovakian Army (nowday it would be protected by the copyright law and for sure marked with trademark). There are only 5 lines of CzWs and ONLY dogs coming from those lines can be described as CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS. Additionally the Czechoslovakian team of "constructors" of this breed exactly described the characteristics of CsW and publishe it in the breed standard. You MUST follow the rules set by them. If you do something else you are breaking the "copyright rules" by producing counterfeits of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.

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And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.
Which dog? The only F5 I know is the G-litter - Garuda, Geryon, Gibil and Gwaihir visit our meeting frequently. None of them is even a bit shy. And they are extremely friendly...
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:34   #77
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But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.
Yes, I agree with you. When I saw him first time I was thinking that he is a VERY wolfish CsW. I was even interested in him as stud dog but... looking in the pedigree I saw that there is something really wrong. Such dog can not be born out of parents listed in the pedigree - the characteristics of Yvanka de New Flame are missing there (it was the time when people started to speak about crosses and I started to believe in it). I do not believe in miracles.

After his puppies were born I knew for sure that he has fake pedigree: the main characteristics of CsW were missing by them... Demoniak can be F1, F2, F3 or F-whatever but two things are sure: he is not a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and he is not a cross of European Wolf.
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:43   #78
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ah but I very good member a wolf- dog mix in germany who was close in self and runn from a touch. This type behavior mas have your dreams wolfdog in future? for this think mas begin breed a new breed without agresive and strong CSW dogs blood with who you have a problem to control.
Wait Daiva, I remember it now. I know what Christian means. He is right - the animal which he saw was EXTREMELY shy. But it was not your dog or any from the G-litter.

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And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.
Christian, it was not F5 but F8 (or F9). I know which dog was bounded to the tree and affraid of everything - it was a male from Crying Wolf kennel.
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Old 15-03-2012, 22:45   #79
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Margo, I can not go along with you when you refer to the breed standard. In germany Berger de Brie - Briard - breeders changed the behavior of briards too. In France the Briards have to attack when they will be challanged. In germany they have to be calm and are not allowed to attack!

But nobody would say, oh you people you are changing the breed standard!

In germany socity dogs must be not only pet dogs, but dogs like being out of plastic with a battery. When people want them to be dog, it is ok. But when they mostly want them to be cool and calm, they cut them down.

I do not know how to explain in english better. But it will be always a problem, if dogs go immediatly at front. Nobody here in germany want this border military dogs! And therefore animals like Demoniak are very important for the breed. And as I showed you in the picture of Doz and Demoniak, they do look like twins! Here is another one.

I do not believe, that there is any american wolfdog or wolf is in him! And by the way Franky does only own two dogs, Volos and Yarl. Wolweryne is with his son and all other dogs are not in his home. But of course I noticed the offspring of Demoniak and Doz does not look really like csw. I was wondering too. Marvellous wolfdogs, but not like csw.... Maybe that is genetics - or you are right.
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Old 15-03-2012, 23:07   #80
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hanninadina
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And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.
I think you mas apologize to me. This dog about who you speak not was ANY my dog. In this year I have only two CSW and this was this horible animals who not runn away but guard a my car and things. You have in mind dog from kennel from what are one your dog too.
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