breeding dogs with no breeding right

[lupis]

me and my friends have serious question about litters. last year they want to use one very nice slovak male for they female. they asked breeder and he write not possible because dog have no bonitation and is not for breeding. but same month they see litter with same male on wolfdog. litter was in germany in zlata palz. now i see same breeder from slovakia breed another dog with no bonitation and dog has litter in hungary in crying wolf.
Hanka write on forum in czech and slovakia you need for breeding bonitation and HD. so why slovak breeder breed dogs with no bonitation. if dog is not for breeding how german and hungary breeder register litter of such dog. it is normal or we find fraud?

[Hanka]

Originally Posted by lupis

me and my friends have serious question about litters. last year they want to use one very nice slovak male for they female. they asked breeder and he write not possible because dog have no bonitation and is not for breeding. but same month they see litter with same male on wolfdog. litter was in germany in zlata palz. now i see same breeder from slovakia breed another dog with no bonitation and dog has litter in hungary in crying wolf.
Hanka write on forum in czech and slovakia you need for breeding bonitation and HD. so why slovak breeder breed dogs with no bonitation. if dog is not for breeding how german and hungary breeder register litter of such dog. it is normal or we find fraud?

Yes, I wrote. I don´t know how it is possible in Slovakia. Is it possible- this male have bonitation already? If no, try ask slovakian club. In Czech republic this is not possible.

[saschia]

In Slovakia, the Slovak parents have to be bonitated. If I use stud dog from abroad, it has to be OK'd by the head of the breeding committee, I am not sure if bonitation is required.

But I think we cannot in any way prevent unbonitated dog from being bred in countries where it is not required. So stud dog can be used by breeders form other countries, even if it does not have all requirements for breeding in Slovakia.

[Hanka]

Originally Posted by saschia

In Slovakia, the Slovak parents have to be bonitated. If I use stud dog from abroad, it has to be OK'd by the head of the breeding committee, I am not sure if bonitation is required.

But I think we cannot in any way prevent unbonitated dog from being bred in countries where it is not required. So stud dog can be used by breeders form other countries, even if it does not have all requirements for breeding in Slovakia.

Hello sascjia, so is it so much different between my and your country? I am surprised....

[Hanka]

Saschia . sorry

[saschia]

Hanka, I don't exactly remember the rules, because the dog I selected was bonitated, but with Ob, which would make dog in Slovakia P14 (although I don't think the Ob for the stud is exact, it is after all dog raised in Germany where they have very different way to keep dogs). I think we can use a stud which passed all things required for breeding in country where he is registered, but as I said, I am not 100% sure.

But can you forbid your owner to use his dog as stud for pure-blood breeding in other country? I don't think so...

But I am not sure which dog Lupis ment, because all dogs which are fathers of Zlata Palz litters and belong to Slovak owners are bonitated and used for breeding in Slovakia too and more than a year already.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

We used Baron Spod Dumbiera before he got the adult Bonitation and we used Enor Maly Bysterez and Gryz Spod Dumbiera without. All have been to young then but both have been x-rayed. Baron and Enor did the bonitation some month later. The reason was that we know bonitation very well and we know the dogs very well from many occasions and have experience enough to see the charakter, so we knew they would pass. We don´t need bonitation in Germany though we made it with our own dogs.
But the main reason was that we are always looking for good new studs and there weren´t any better ones available at that time.

Ina

[Neufi-friend]

Originally Posted by lupis

me and my friends have serious question about litters. last year they want to use one very nice slovak male for they female. they asked breeder and he write not possible because dog have no bonitation and is not for breeding. but same month they see litter with same male on wolfdog. litter was in germany in zlata palz. now i see same breeder from slovakia breed another dog with no bonitation and dog has litter in hungary in crying wolf.

I’m not competent to speak about the breeding regulations in Hungary but I can help you in the German case. Basing on the VDH-Zuchtordnung (German breeding regulations) concerning breeding with the foreign stud dogs the dog must fulfill either the requirements in Germany required by the German Wolfdog Club or in the origin country. What will mean the dog must have German Zuchtzulassung or it must be registered as stud dog in the country where its owner live. In your case when the mentioned dog was not FCI-registered stud dog neither in Germany nor in Slovakia it was not possible to make official registration of such litter. It also means that in the future before you blame a breeder for breaking the regulation please be so kind to post also some evidence because your post includes serious accusations.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Neufi-friend

I’m not competent to speak about the breeding regulations in Hungary but I can help you in the German case. Basing on the VDH-Zuchtordnung (German breeding regulations) concerning breeding with the foreign stud dogs the dog must fulfill either the requirements in Germany required by the German Wolfdog Club or in the origin country. What will mean the dog must have German Zuchtzulassung or it must be registered as stud dog in the country where its owner live. In your case when the mentioned dog was not FCI-registered stud dog neither in Germany nor in Slovakia it was not possible to make official registration of such litter. It also means that in the future before you blame a breeder for breaking the regulation please be so kind to post also some evidence because your post includes serious accusations.

Now i am total weird because one breeder write one thing you write else. You say is not possible to make litter with dog with no breeding right and german breeder say they make not only one but more litter with dog as this. If is not possible to register litter with male with no breeding right how they register litters. It is fraud possible because nobody check it?

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We used Baron Spod Dumbiera before he got the adult Bonitation and we used Enor Maly Bysterez and Gryz Spod Dumbiera without. All have been to young then but both have been x-rayed. Baron and Enor did the bonitation some month later. The reason was that we know bonitation very well and we know the dogs very well from many occasions and have experience enough to see the charakter, so we knew they would pass.

I not understand you way of explanation because for me it is clear because dogs have not breeding right in germany and slovakia and it mean are not dogs in FCI for breeding. And is indifferent if dog will be for breeding in future because it is about now and also owner of dog say is not possible for breeding because dog have no bonitation. If other breeder want to breed with breeding rules they wait and see no problem. And not try to breed against rules. It is sad because some breeder in italia say you have best kennel in germany and i think litter with male with no breeding right was one time and mistake but for you is normal style of breeding. For you it is not wrong to use dogs and register dogs against rule. Other breeder breed normal way. Why not you? I simply not understand reason to brake rules

I really want to know why breeders make it. Make litters with dogs with no breeding rights and dogs with no papers. And litter with false parents. And not only bad breeders but also breeders who say or i hear they are best in their country like you, furyos or jasmine For what motiv?

[hanninadina]

It is interesting what Neufi-friend wrote. But the conclusion I can not follow. What Lupis wrote is indeed a real question and I am curious what the "gods of german csw" will answer. It is funny they put their head about every rules. That is what I always say, the are talking about water and drinking wine. I will die for laughing that they made bonitation with their dogs. The grandmother of all their puppies did not pass bonitation and was P 14. And years and years later, Gerda z Rofa did pass after a lot of help from everyone and closing the eyes the bonitation...... As I said, rules are not valid for everyone. We are here in germany in kind of banana republic....

Christian

[hanninadina]

Neufi, yesterday the secon chief of german wolfdog club did ask the VDH, if a male for breeding from a foreign countray does need a bonitation = ZUchtzulassung in his country or in the country where he is used for example in this case in germany. The vdh told Peter, that he only needs FCI papers, no bonitation in his own country and no bonitation or Zuchtzulassung in germany for example.

I think the problem is that the both german csw clubs are not in german vdh. So the rules does not valid for csw. The vdh is only "looking" and "caring" for the csw. But I think maybe they don´t know the fci rules. But I don´t know either. The point is, if the slovakians have the patronat and a male has to be bonitated it does not matter if he will be used in the Slovakei or in a foreign country, the rules of his country he has to follow. And if he does not have bonitation, he should not be allowed to cover! Otherwise, no one needs a bonitation if it is possible to go around the rules. That is my opinion. Every good dog has no problems to pass the bonitation!

Christian

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Neufi, yesterday the secon chief of german wolfdog club did ask the VDH, if a male for breeding from a foreign countray does need a bonitation = ZUchtzulassung in his country or in the country where he is used for example in this case in germany. The vdh told Peter, that he only needs FCI papers, no bonitation in his own country and no bonitation or Zuchtzulassung in germany for example.

I think the problem is that the both german csw clubs are not in german vdh. So the rules does not valid for csw. The vdh is only "looking" and "caring" for the csw. But I think maybe they don´t know the fci rules. But I don´t know either. The point is, if the slovakians have the patronat and a male has to be bonitated it does not matter if he will be used in the Slovakei or in a foreign country, the rules of his country he has to follow. And if he does not have bonitation, he should not be allowed to cover! Otherwise, no one needs a bonitation if it is possible to go around the rules. That is my opinion. Every good dog has no problems to pass the bonitation!

Christian

and in this case we not have good reproductor, see reproductor list- not be interesing dogs to breed.
be moore very interesing dogs, who be only house dogs, and when not use this dogs, when he not have bonitation - this be idiotism, good breeder breed genetic and see pedigree, but not breed dogs only when he have plural CH or only good bonitation

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

... the rules of his country he has to follow.

And that´s why Christian mated Myla with Miky Passo del Lupo, an Italian dog with an Italian bonitation