CzW breeding in France (work vs. show)

[stephjj]

and can you say: wolfdog is a WORKING BREED or DECORATION breed?

in france the wolfdog are not working breed is show breed only.

best regard stephjj

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by stephjj

and can you say: wolfdog is a WORKING BREED or DECORATION breed?

in france the wolfdog are not working breed is show breed only.

and this is very bad

[furyos]

hi wolfin and all...y just s want to say: ...yes it s shame but france need time(y wrote that before)give us time for us and yu see the progress ....it s a new race for france and the new comission work about this question ...don 't worry ...frank from france ....

[stephjj]

yes i know is very bad but in france is that ,yes we want the csv working but now we dont have the choice.

stephjj

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by stephjj

yes i know is very bad but in france is that ,yes we want the csv working but now we dont have the choice.

stephjj

Sorry, but can you explain me, who or what is preventing you from working with your CSV? Are you trying to convince us, that in France CSW cannot do agility, cannot do obedience, tracking (pistage), coursing, dogtrekking, bikejoring.. anything? Yes, I know you have there problem with CSW doing defence, but that´s about it.

[martiou07]

indeed the CLT in France is not authorized to make the corrosive one but as you say it mirkawolf, of another activity are proposed to us such as the agility, tracking, obedience..., my last, it, with the club of education makes agility and that plait to him, and we pass from good moment, it does not have there only corrosive the!!!!!

Martial

[stephjj]

yes we can do all you say but what is official in France obedience ,agility and pi stage that all and someone don't want to do that ,some want defence or endurance.

steph

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by stephjj

...someone don't want to do that ,some want defence or endurance. steph

Yeah, that´s the point of problem. Many French (Belgian, Dutch..) people DO NOT WANT to work with their dogs, not that they CAN NOT. Who wants to work, will find his way, no matter on the country.

Who does not want to work, comes up with a milion of excuses and then goes to dog show and collects useless titles

[furyos]

hi ...just want to say this future is the same that siberian huskies 20/30 years ago ....now we have 2 sorts of dogs ...for show(more quiet and in a spirit of show) and for work (more speed and atletic body)(same for other race too )...and people do their choice ...musher or not ...y think nobody can impose their volonty and just their ideas to community ....if people don't like work but prefer show ...what is the problem if other people do work more ?????....y live in country where the most important words are freedom....egality ....and fraternity....y think ( pass and present prove that)it s not a good thing believe just ONE ideology.........respect of differents ideas and cultures is the foundment of new civilisation ....in a topic like here y think we can prove it s the solution .........friendly frank from france ....(and hope became europeen but now it s more for economyand not in all spirit'people..;it s shame...)

[Mirkawolf]

Dear Frank,
we do not discuss here freedom, brotherhood, equality or ideology. We discuss here about Czechoslovakian wolfdogs. And the fact is, that CSW was always meant as working dog. Not as a show dog. There is plenty of breeds, that got quite screwed up, once the dog show people put their hands on them.

It happened to huskies - yeah, the show husky is nice furr ball, but it would not survive in the sledge. Show husky is a joke to real huskies, cause the real huskies were ment to work. The same thing happened to German shepherds - the show German shepherd can barely walk, his hind legs are over-angulated and the dog does not have anything left from it´s original purpose - healthy, character stable and versatile dog. Is this what you wish for CSW as a breed?

Working dogs should be working. They should not be turned into dolls. I do not care, what kind of "job" or work the CSW will do, but any kind of "job" or work, or sport is better for the dog, than to spend hours laying in cage, waiting for his class to come into ring and then run round 5 minutes in circle in front of a judge. What does it bring to the dog? Nothing at all.

We speak here about what is good for CSW as a breed. Not about what is good for lazy people. And all over the world, everyone is free to use his brain and common sense to figure this out.

[Rona]

Mirka,
Regards
Rona

[wolfin]

Mirka,

[indiananous]

Mirka


Indiana

[furyos]

hi all ...y know that csw are do for work and YUR REFLEXION IS TRUE and y m agree with ....but y just try and want yu explain that little as little yu see 2 differents types in the world and we couldn't change that ...if yu have a solution y m so interrest about this ....sure my father breed 20years ago huskies more for work and result in show are little as little medium ....of course juge prefer an other type ....yu don t think that it will became the same for csw?????????y respect if it s the decision for juge and y respect the work for breeders spesialist for work'csw....we note in france some juge prefer csw more little and other one more big ....it s so subjectiv .......but if yu note the evolution for huskies yu can see huskies class for work(champion winner)and for show(champion beauty)......it s shame but it s the reality ........what we can do ????????boycott show?do yu have THE SOLUTION ?frank.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

So we are all going to ruin the breed now because there are breeders out of the countries of origin that don´t care about the qualitiy of their breeding? And we don´t try to improve things because the Huskies and German Shepherds got ruined too (in the last ones not only the show lines by the way)?
It is absolutely no problem to show dogs on Club shows with judges that know the breed or to join the bonitations or summer camps.

And why is this a reason to breed a bitch without official HD-results?

Ina

[furyos]

yes of course but the legislation is not the same in all countries and if we want the same it's the FCI work after meeting with race club ...not? to regulase the situation :work and show /it's a long way and it's for that y try to explain we need TIME and patience ...........friendly frank....

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Well I can answer this because we have almost the same situation in Germany. We only need one exhibition result of very good, one special breeding exhibition that´s nothing serious, one x-ray and an eye-test every year. We had and have still the same problems with judges on FCI-shows and of course we have breeders that think they have an excellent dog because it managed to get the German champion titel. We have German champions that wouldn´t pass the bonitation because of their exterieur mistakes. We still have a lot of problems. But things have improved a lot because we have several people that show their dogs in the Clubshows in the countries of origin, we now invite specialised judges to the German Club show, we organise Endurance runs and Bonitations, we ask people not only to x-ray the hips but the ellbows too. Of course we can force nobody to join them though we are working on harder breeding conditions. We have to look differently at some of the results because we are at the beginning (the countries of origin did that too, by the way) but though we had a lot of fights last year and some people left and started their own Club do we get a lot of help from outside because we are trying to improve things. And there are more and more German judges that are improving their judging and that actually see the breed improved a lot.
And there are also people from Luxemburg, France and Belgium that come to Club shows and bonitations. There was just a new Club founded in Belgium to improve things.
To say "the others aren´t doing it" is the wrong way in my eyes, you can start doing things, it needs some effort but isn´t impossible and you will find a lot of people helping you if you look at the situation globaly not nationally. I don´t agree with everything I see in the countries of origin but I can not know how too make things better if I do not know how things are done at all.

Ina

[furyos]

yes ina y m agree ...the solution it will be a big europeen meeting and present to fci this way of reglementation ....but it s not before a lot of years .....y hope everybody and breeders work in this way :not "dissociation"beetween work/show ....but............yes but ...friendly frank.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

No, you didn´t understand me. Yo don´t need a big international meeting und it is useless to expect the FCI to do the regulation. You have to start yourself with your own dogs and find other breeders and owners to join you even if it may be unpopular with the others. You have to do represantations of the breed in your country where you definetly say: look this is a working breed, it is supposed to have this charakter, it is supposed to look like this, his body confirmation should be like this. Everything else is a mistake and wrong and if some breeder tells you something different he is a lyer and you shouldn´t buy a dog there.

But this means too that you have to go to bonitations and endurance runs and Club shows and camps and have to travel thousands of kilometers to find a proper mating partner and very important a different mating partner to the one before. And not at least that you make a good health control of your dog even more than your breeding association is asking for.

Ina

[furyos]

yes .........but it s not so easy ........frank