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Dog shows Our show successes, how to prepare a CzW, how to show him...

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Old 21-11-2005, 14:43   #1
Cerite
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Default World Dogshow 2008 Stockholm, Sweden

Hi all...

just got of the phone with the Swedish Kennelklubb and they say it is OK to come with both Vlac and Saarloos to the Worldshow in Stockholm, Sweden 2008....

Good news I think.....

cheers Cerite
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Old 21-11-2005, 21:14   #2
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Of course!
SWH and CzW is FCI breeds!

Lupo italiano probably go have problems whit this because is not FCI breed.

2007 mexico!
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Old 21-11-2005, 21:24   #3
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Hardly of course - CSW are banned from Sweden just like they are from the UK. In the UK they are banned from all shows, even the international ones like Crufts, therefore it is really very encouraging that Wolfdogs will be allowed on the show in Sweden.

However, there is still a long time to go before 2008 - therefore it will be interesting to know if wolfdogs can actually sign up for the show once the inscriptions start.

Thank you for keeping us informed Cerite.
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Old 21-11-2005, 22:49   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf
Hardly of course - CSW are banned from Sweden just like they are from the UK. In the UK they are banned from all shows, even the international ones like Crufts, therefore it is really very encouraging that Wolfdogs will be allowed on the show in Sweden.

However, there is still a long time to go before 2008 - therefore it will be interesting to know if wolfdogs can actually sign up for the show once the inscriptions start.

Thank you for keeping us informed Cerite.


I thought that the breeding this breed in these countries was forbidden only, but never I imagined that he was forbidden even though for these in shows!
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Old 21-11-2005, 22:53   #5
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It is not forbidden to keep them in Sweden it is only forbidden to breed.

Ina
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Old 21-11-2005, 23:53   #6
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Actually it was my understanding that the breed was banned in Sweden which means

1) You cannot breed them
2) You cannot import them or bring them into the country

This is typical when a breed gets banned from a country - the existing dogs are not put down but rather they are all sterilized and both breeding and importing is forbidden. Eventually the breed dies out and there are no dogs of that kind to be found in the country. This is the situtation for CSW in both Sweden and Norway. The UK is slightly different, because you CAN have wolfdogs there, but they fall under the Dangerous and Wild animals regulations.

So... yes there are some wolfdogs in Sweden but... they are not really allowed in Sweden.

The fact that there is a show which allows CSW in Sweden is very encouraging because it will allow owners and breeders to (hopefully) show the breed how it really is, and help to convince the authorities that the restrictions on the CSW are unfounded.
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Old 22-11-2005, 00:33   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf
Actually it was my understanding that the breed was banned in Sweden which means

1) You cannot breed them
2) You cannot import them or bring them into the country

This is typical when a breed gets banned from a country - the existing dogs are not put down but rather they are all sterilized and both breeding and importing is forbidden. Eventually the breed dies out and there are no dogs of that kind to be found in the country. This is the situtation for CSW in both Sweden and Norway. The UK is slightly different, because you CAN have wolfdogs there, but they fall under the Dangerous and Wild animals regulations.

So... yes there are some wolfdogs in Sweden but... they are not really allowed in Sweden.

The fact that there is a show which allows CSW in Sweden is very encouraging because it will allow owners and breeders to (hopefully) show the breed how it really is, and help to convince the authorities that the restrictions on the CSW are unfounded.
then if the breeder will have a certificate of consevacionist Breeder or certifyd of the Organization that takes care of the wild animals, this person can breed CzWs.
if this will be possible, cannot be considered that the government wants the extinguishing of the breed.
Existing CzWs there, it would not be of these owners (or who knows breeders of other countries) if to join and to prove that the breed is the the opposite of that the government thinks?
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Old 22-11-2005, 02:08   #8
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Nebulosa,

I thank you for your ideas, as I know that they are based in a desire to help, however you may want to consult in detail what the Dangerous and Wild animals regulations imply namely:

1) The animals must be caged at all times
2) The fact that they may be kept does not imply that breeding is legal
3) Even if they could be bred, trade in Dangerous and Wild animals is not legal in the UK – therefore the owner would have to keep all the pups (in a cage)
4) In practice the infrastructure needed to comply with the Dangerous and Wild animals act is not dissimilar to that of a zoo
5) Only seven licenses have been granted for the keeping of wolves or wolf-hybrids in the UK (CSW are considered wolf hybrids there) none have been granted for CSWs – any CSWs found by DEFRA have been confiscated
6) Hybrids (which is how DEFRA classes CSW), as opposed to “true” wild animals are of no ecological value, therefore if DEFRA does find these animals they will be confiscated and very possibly sacrificed. (The cost of keeping with their own regulation is too high for DEFRA…)

In short – I do not know of anyone who has CSW and the infrastructure needed to comply with DEFRA regulations. Even if they did, who in their right mind would want to keep CSW in such conditions? While CSW are not banned per se in the UK it is a de-facto ban – there are no known CSW in the UK and will never be until DEFRA reviews its position as regards to the Dangerous and Wild Animals act.

I suggest that you review the DEFRA site for information on the Dangerous and Wild Animals act if you are interested in the subject.
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Old 22-11-2005, 08:07   #9
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Two of our puppies are in Sweden. The owner got that checked before she got them and they are both officially registered and she never had any problems. The situation is different to Norway, they are allowed to be imported and to be kept like normal dogs. They are not allowed to breed. This must be the reason why they can be shown. It is not that unlikely that they are allowed to breed in future.

Ina
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Old 23-11-2005, 21:01   #10
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It’s always interesting to share experience, I know of CSWs which would not be allowed into Sweden by Swedish customs and had to be smuggled in, but this was a few years back so things seem to have changed for the better.

It would be very significant if Sweden would allow the breeding of CSWs, lets hope this happens!
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Old 01-12-2005, 14:25   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf
It’s always interesting to share experience, I know of CSWs which would not be allowed into Sweden by Swedish customs and had to be smuggled in, but this was a few years back so things seem to have changed for the better.

It would be very significant if Sweden would allow the breeding of CSWs, lets hope this happens!
According to my information both the CSV and SW are recognized as official FCI breeds by the Swedish government. The Swedish Kennel Club, however, do not register none of them.
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Old 01-12-2005, 14:33   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf
It’s always interesting to share experience, I know of CSWs which would not be allowed into Sweden by Swedish customs and had to be smuggled in, but this was a few years back so things seem to have changed for the better.

It would be very significant if Sweden would allow the breeding of CSWs, lets hope this happens!
According to my information both the CSV and SW are recognized as official FCI breeds by the Swedish government. The Swedish Kennel Club, however, do not register none of them.
Sorry to all of you
The above posting was made be me
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Old 01-12-2005, 20:05   #13
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I am very confused

Since when do governments recognize breeds? I thought they left it up to kennel clubs to do the recognizing... The only exception to that is when the government (be it national, regional or local) comes up with some law which bans or puts restrictions on some breed or the other

Anyhow maybe I'm confused or maybe (as is usually the case) there are very different ways of doing things in different countries.
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Old 01-12-2005, 23:48   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf
I am very confused

Since when do governments recognize breeds? I thought they left it up to kennel clubs to do the recognizing... The only exception to that is when the government (be it national, regional or local) comes up with some law which bans or puts restrictions on some breed or the other

Anyhow maybe I'm confused or maybe (as is usually the case) there are very different ways of doing things in different countries.
Let me put it this way
Previously the Swedish government (like Norway) banned certain breeds. While Norway increased the anount of banned breeds, the Swedish government decreased its number to zero.

The Swedish Kennel Klub, however, do not register CSV and SW and the two breeds are (until now ?) not allowed to participate in dog shows arranged by the Swedish Kennel Club.
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Old 02-12-2005, 00:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharkwolf

In short – I do not know of anyone who has CSW and the infrastructure needed to comply with DEFRA regulations. Even if they did, who in their right mind would want to keep CSW in such conditions? While CSW are not banned per se in the UK it is a de-facto ban – there are no known CSW in the UK and will never be until DEFRA reviews its position as regards to the Dangerous and Wild Animals act.
I really do not know as it is the fiscalization there, but as the government it goes to know that the dog is one CzW or one SwH (?)
for example: I have a CZW in mi house being that this breed is not the "most popular", and for who it is not accustomed very is seemed a "Utonagan" and other breeds that have erect ears, long snout and "wolfcoat" (simile Alaskan malamute, germann sheepheard agouty coat, husky wolfcoat and others...) .
How they go to prove that my dog is a CZW (for example)?

look
Here we are with a problem similar in certain cities, in the Rio de Janeiro the American Pit bull Terrier and the American Staffrodshire terrier had been banished, but the Dogue brasileiro and American staff bull terrier not, being this a breed (dogue Brasileiro) short while seemed, few knows to distinguish these breeds, then many APBT pass for Dogue brasileiro and can walk outside of the laws.
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Old 02-12-2005, 10:04   #16
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Hi Nebulosa.

You also can take a car, change its registration number car and drive it. No body will tell you anything. But if you have a problem and an expert (mechanic, police,…) checks your car, you will pay de act of breaking the law. If you have money, you can pay it, but, What does it happen with the car? It is confiscated.

Now the dog. If you do what you say. And an expert (judge, vet, breeder,..) realises that it is a CzW you’ll be judged and the dog sacrificed.

The laws are made for some reason, it doesn’t matter if we agree with them or not, they –the laws- are there and we have to carry out them. Some times to brake the law means to harm somebody or something else. If we are not agree with a law, rule,.. we have got resources to change them. I know it is a slow way, but is the proper one.

The comment you wrote, as a joke wasn’t funny, but as an advice…better no to mention it.

Rafa
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Old 03-12-2005, 00:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Let me put it this way
Previously the Swedish government (like Norway) banned certain breeds. While Norway increased the anount of banned breeds, the Swedish government decreased its number to zero.

The Swedish Kennel Klub, however, do not register CSV and SW and the two breeds are (until now ?) not allowed to participate in dog shows arranged by the Swedish Kennel Club.
Ahhh!!!! Now I get it yes... countries do not recognize breeds but every now and then the law does ban one for some esoteric reason.

Thanks for the clarification whomever you may be... and it's good to know that wolfdogs per se are again allowed in Sweden, though the kennel club may not recognize them (their loss if you ask me!)
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Old 03-12-2005, 01:49   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa
Hi Nebulosa.

You also can take a car, change its registration number car and drive it. No body will tell you anything. But if you have a problem and an expert (mechanic, police,…) checks your car, you will pay de act of breaking the law. If you have money, you can pay it, but, What does it happen with the car? It is confiscated.

Now the dog. If you do what you say. And an expert (judge, vet, breeder,..) realises that it is a CzW you’ll be judged and the dog sacrificed.

The laws are made for some reason, it doesn’t matter if we agree with them or not, they –the laws- are there and we have to carry out them. Some times to brake the law means to harm somebody or something else. If we are not agree with a law, rule,.. we have got resources to change them. I know it is a slow way, but is the proper one.

The comment you wrote, as a joke wasn’t funny, but as an advice…better no to mention it.

Rafa
How I said, I do not know as the things function there, but by chance, the government made a voting asking if the people agreed to this law??

Great differences exist to be turn possible to compare an car with a canine breed, exists a base to have done this law for the car, everything is very obvious, but, and the dogs, as they had arrived the conclusion of that certain breeds are potentially dangerous for the population?
Exactly that they had base for this, will be them for the thought of everything what is dangerous for the life human that being exterminated, then we have to kill all the outlaws who already had placed the life of people in risk, as well as forbidding the cars, after all, car really is something dangerous, is enough an incautiousness for a great accident with some deceased.

the realy is, if nobody to show to the the opposite and the impotence of the government before the fiscalization of the laws that creates this law never goes to change!
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Old 24-01-2008, 23:14   #19
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Hello everybody
This is what the Swdeish Kennel Club ses today.

Sens 29 of mars 2007 you hawe beanable to register SWH and CvS in Sweden.

And short after that you culd compeat.

But onely sens 1 of jan 2008 you have benable to compeat about nationall certification.

The gowerment has alowed SWH and CsV sens sometime in 2004 thanks to the big boss EU.
But the Swedish Kennel Club hawe refused to regestrate them intill 29 of mars 2007.

But I think thanks to WDS-08 thay got so menay e-mails from SWH and CsV owners that thay had to change there mind.

Best of luck to you all on the WDS-08 / Mikael Wolfdog.se
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Old 25-01-2008, 00:22   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
But I think thanks to WDS-08 thay got so menay e-mails from SWH and CsV owners that thay had to change there mind.

Best of luck to you all on the WDS-08 / Mikael Wolfdog.se
Would be nice if all those SWH and CsV owners would write to the Swedish Kennel Club and make them change the strange (and if I may say, a bit stupid) rules that concerns breeding with both breeds here to.

Ninni
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