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Old 29-03-2012, 11:42   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koomak View Post
Me? Immature? You've filmed for 3 h and you are hiding you for this! you realize? ! 6 min to show "CLT classic character," your dogs are aggressive, it's you who should stop them again! ! So you accuse me of mistreating my dogs! !! It is you who have a problem! ! Leave us alone. . Mikael, I'm not so stupid as you think. . . . I know where my puppies go, I select my future owners much better than the breeders! !! Do not worry about that. . .
moore mixes? I believe they you not call and not breed like a CSV when they not are CSV.
yes you mas select a owners, when law have stright right about wild animals keeping. When they and are wild animals not dogs.
p.s.
agresive dogs in video- please put this moment, when I not saw this, only a poore shy animals and big % normals CSV.
and please LEAVE A CSV BREED alone, mixing this animal who have but not call they a CSV.
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Old 29-03-2012, 11:52   #262
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Lithuanian owner and breeder read this who are in Fb and WD and have two opinions about this who make a muts owner:
first:
"This is not white, then black" syndrom

and second:

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Old 29-03-2012, 12:02   #263
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Originally Posted by koomak View Post
I select my future owners much better than the breeders! !! Do not worry about that. . .
At least you're beeing honest with us!
Yes, I have no doubt you select the future owners of your pups better than you've selected the breeders of your dogs.
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Old 29-03-2012, 12:37   #264
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wolfin:
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yes you mas select a owners, when law have stright right about wild animals keeping. When they and are wild animals not dogs.
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Old 29-03-2012, 12:43   #265
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Originally Posted by julie9471 View Post
You say that they are not pure and that they are the facts. What facts? You have NO proof and you allow to assault people. In fact it is you who have no normal behavior, it would doubtless be necessary to film you during hours to discuss it then. It is you, that will kill the race, strength you will eventually make the future owners run away who will not want of a race of dog where the world is filled with visionaries, and that will finish with not lof each at home, that it is the reality, I repeat, but we would really say a sect...
You seem a little bit confused, could you put that in normal words...
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Old 29-03-2012, 17:07   #266
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
We had the doubtfull luck to be able to have a longer look at the animals in question on the Expo in Reggio Emilia. As photos really don´t show how distressed those animals are I made some videos over 3 hours.
As you can see they are very different to normal CSW in looks and behaviour. The handlers didn´t stand up most of the time and shielded them the whole time. They were so terribly stressed that they collapsed after some hours and layed down, not because they started to relax but because they were so mentally they switched off. Thankfully the animal shown was disqualified by the Czech judge.
In Germany I would have reported them to officials for cruelty against animals, their acting is clearly against German law. I feel sick looking at them again.
No doubt beautifull animals but also no doubt very unhappy and abused animals.


Ina
What happened at minute 5 to close the muzzle of this afraid animal?
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Old 29-03-2012, 17:36   #267
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Good question, I didn´t see this before. But even watching it three times I really can´t tell you. Maybe it didn´t panik enough and was therefor aggressiv?? Or it dared to growl out of stress???

Ina
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:02   #268
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
I can not see any facts in Sophies dogs that look like american wolfdogs! These are purely europaen wolfdogs. I would call them foundation stock of csw!
NO? Gunner des Loups de l'Ostrevent - bred by Sophie is 100% AWD-cross. He do not have ANYTHING what characterize European Wolfdogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
So we have here true csw = foundation stock animals because from mother and father side is fresh carpathian wolf blood inside. And in days like this sociaty does not want any aggressiv barking wolfdogs! So it was the right time to bring in fresh blood and brink the csw down from hyperactiv behavior.
Christian - we do not want ANY mongrels. The dogs bred by Frank and Sophie are mixes of something. But 1000000% they are not real EU-wolf x CsW mixes. It is obvious they have AWD (and Saarloos?) blood.
But the video shows another thing: it is also 1000000% sure the dogs have CHEATED pedigrees - there are NO DOUBTS about it. I hope after it the Slovakian Club will report it to FCI finally.

Second point: the extrem shyness and the catatonic behaviour of these animals shows that they are NOT European Wolf crosses. But American Wolf crosses.
And your words protecting those mixes are the best example: you love AWD (Saarloos type dogs) because they have different character than CsW: CsW are WORKING breed - they have characteristic temperament (active, prepared to protect the owner/to work as protection dogs). And you hate it. But you love AWD character - it is why you like Sophies dogs so much... The animals of Sophie show the Saarloos alike temperament typical for AWD crosses.

And last: YOU are not the CsW breeder. And even as a breeder you would have NO RIGHT to decide about this breed. As I wrote you already: it is not your property. And the Slovakian Club says: such shy character is disqualification fault. RESPONSIBLE breeder would not breed with such dogs. So stop bringing happiness to us by force... We LOVE the "hyperactiv behavior" of your dogs. It is why we want to have this breed. Who do not like it should buy a SAARLOOS or AWD. I find the behaviour of the dogs of Sophie HORRIBLE. I know tamed WOLVES which are much more relaxed in such places than the mixes bred by her.
It will be a DISSASTER for this breed if CsW will behave like those animals. At the moment there are some shy CsW but usually it is caused by missing socialization. Those mixes are just shy be genetic. There is no "cure" for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
And I am wondering Margo and Sarka wrote above that they were very interested in Sophies dogs when seeing them first time. I can not understand why both recognize them as pure csw - but Eichhorns are not able?
Christian - the first generation (Demoniak) could be a NICE CSW. I agree. Because of it it was possible to cheat breeders in the begining. Me too. I come from Poland where cheating of pedigrees IS NOT POSSIBLE here because it is threatened by a VERY huge penalties (Person like Frank would be kicked from ZKwP and FCI with ALL his dogs !immediately! if it would happend in PL).. NOBODY in my country would be a such an idiot to cheat pedigrees so obviously. And if somebody would do it the kennel club will forse him to make the DNA tests. And after it would remove such person from FCI - it means an END for everybody who would make something like this. I was thinking in France it is the same - that the French kennel club GARANTY that dogs listed in the pedigree match to the reallity. I was thinking that breeders would be affraid to make any frauds. I WAS WRONG.

After we discovered the French fraud of the pedigrees we informed about it all breeders in PL. If somebody will try to import such dog we will go on the official way against such breeder. None of those mongrels will be registered by us.
I will also NEVER use the mixes of Frank - even for free!!! As I would never cross my dogs with any street dogs of unknown origin. Demoniak can be mistaken with a CLC. But NONE of his children - all of them a Saarloos-AWD alike (what shows that he also is a AWD cross). Totally untipical according the CsW standard. Look on Fantastik Wolweryne de la Louve Blanche:

He looks like Malamute-German Shepherd Cross with light eyes.
Look on the dog Edora owner by Sophie:

It look like 100% Saarloos. 0% Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.

No Christian - those animals will be never good blood for our breed. They bring atypical look and atypical character. And for sure in the next generation we will see more strange dogs in France... Because F1 crosses can be nice but their children show already charactertistics of different breeds used by Frank while breeding his mongrels...

One thing is good Now all people - all CsW owners and breeders will see "who is who": who is a good and responsible breeder and who is just a bussines man breeding for money. Because NONE of the good breeders will ever use any of those mongrels. They will be used only by puppy millers - producers who will see a source of money in it... Because there is no other reason for using the mixes with fake pedigrees then puppies production made for $...

PS. I would liek to say "thank you" to Sophie for showing those animals in Italy. If there were any people who had ANY doubts - she dispelled all doubts because people wad the chance to see the mixes with their own eyes. Now everybody agreed that those animals have FAKE pedigrees and they are NOT CsWs...
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:13   #269
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one question in who method they are a NEW line if have in pedigree dogs what blood in breed are much, and not rare? if make a line mas make oficial without falsh pedigree with permission from Slovak club with empty pedigree from 1 to 4 generation. Why falshing documents? Now they not are any new line, only animals with cheating documents.

maybe organizator this alls show not think who make. Now pack mas change a documents if want have and OFICIAL rare line
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:13   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vero et sa meute View Post
and to close all Ina I have never seen all your dogs live together strange!:!
You know why? Because Ina has CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS. They have different character than your American Wolfdog (or Saarloos) crosses.

But also because of this character the dogs of Ina WORK as seach dogs (mantrailing) and your dogs not... With those wild animals you would never be able to make any serious work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hekate View Post
Graal during the exhibition which shows me sound to blow so that I scratch him, one see that he is very put under stress
WOW, you was even able to touch him!!!
Here you have a 100% European Wolf - 1000% more confident than the French croses:

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Old 29-03-2012, 18:21   #271
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post

But also because of this character the dogs of Ina WORK as seach dogs (mantrailing) and your dogs not... With those wild animals you would never be able to make any serious work...
YEP - why people want a CSV- for sport, like mantrailing, agility, dogtrecking, IPO, for defence house and personality ( yes ours dogs can do it, and owner can without stress walk in night in city, without any stress about running away animal)
Quote:
WOW, you was even able to touch him!!!
Here you have a 100% European Wolf - 1000% more confident than the French croses:
this nice wolf have and bonitation mesured- WITHOUT any stress I can touch her, check a thoots, mesured shes body, she is wild animal but are moore typical CSV like this who we saw in video.
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:23   #272
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But still they live all together in the house, like yours do.
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:26   #273
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Originally Posted by koomak View Post
You filmed for 3 hours! ! You love me so much! !! You came just for that! you came to spy on me! ! Your video shows nothing! ! Show 3h completely! ! My dogs do not know the cage! they were calm and without aggressiveness! ! I saw many many aggressive dogs all day! ! This is not normal! ! I prefer mine! !
Sophie, the description of your dogs shows that you have Saarloos alike dogs. And you LOVE Saarloos alike dogs. Please be so kind and switch the breed. Register your dogs as Saarloos and remove them from the French pedigree book of CsW in France.

You really have no idea about our breed, its character and REQIURED characteristics. I can say you that EXTREMLY SHY CsWs behave exactly like your dogs: they are too scared to do anything and they are too scared to make anything. But it is nothing that you can be proud about.

One more the breed standard:

Part describing typical CsW:
"BEHAVIOUR-TEMPERAMENT:
Lively, active, tough, obedient with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses."


Part describing your dogs:
"DISQUALIFYING FAULTS :
- Aggresive or overly shy."
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:52   #274
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Originally Posted by julie9471 View Post
You say that they are not pure and that they are the facts. What facts?
So than this is a CsV to, as I can not prove that it is not ????
http://www.wolfdog.org/site/dbase/d/5537

Thank god you are nor a breeder or a bonitation judge

Best regards / Mikael
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:17   #275
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Originally Posted by koomak View Post
Mikael, I'm not so stupid as you think. . . . I know where my puppies go, I select my future owners much better than the breeders! !! Do not worry about that. . .
Really!?!?! One of the people came to you and asked if your dogs are pure. You told her YES!!!
Sophie - it is a DANGEROUS lie! I also think you are NOT a stupid person - and because of it I think that you know for 100% that dogs which you breed are not PURE Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but unpredictable crosses. Therefore, I think that you are premeditated lying to puppy buyers by telling them your dogs are ClCs. And this is not behavior of a responsible breeder.
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:28   #276
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
Really!?!?! One of the people came to you and asked if your dogs are pure. You told her YES!!!
.
If im not mistaken she acted exactly like that also on Facebook, telling that her dogs are pure and even have DNA test, it really dont amaze me.
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:40   #277
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Im just asking - this "breeders" want to begin a new line, breding wolves and csv (or something like this)?
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:48   #278
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
So we have here true csw = foundation stock animals because from mother and father side is fresh carpathian wolf blood inside. And in days like this sociaty does not want any aggressiv barking wolfdogs!
Christian, I think you are victim of the nice fairy tales told by the mongrels owners... Ask Sophie why she is no more showing her great Doz... Why she dissappeared from the show rings when the female started to be adult.
Ask Fabio to show you his Wolfsirius Dik Passo del Lupo. Could you late post us a photo with this "great" dog? I really hope it will be not similar to this:


It was not different with Mutaras in Italy. Alaska aka Ave Lupo Mutara was registred by Fabio and covered with Lion Passo del Lupo. Did you forget his story? I will refresh your memory. Lion was given away by his owner because of the agressive behaviour. He came back to the breeder. During a show he attacked and seriously injured a young italian woman. Despite of it Fabio covered Ave Lupo with his male who should be taken OUT of the breeding. After it the dog was put down by him.
Christian - do you want to tell me that it is the great "fresh" blood which we should use? Do you think such animals will make our breed better?
Anyway I do not plan to use any psychopaths.
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Old 29-03-2012, 20:02   #279
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Originally Posted by leila View Post
Im just asking - this "breeders" want to begin a new line, breding wolves and csv (or something like this)?
No, it is not the reason. They just wanted to be the "best breeders in the world". To have "the best dogs in the world".
But because they are laymen with the missing knowledge about genetic, breeding, lines and standard they were not able to breed any good dogs.
So they saw the best possiblity to reach they goals by using mixes. Just take a look who is breeding mixes now - all possible LOOSERS. Breeders who were not able to breed any good animals. NONE of the good breeders is using/breding mices....
But because they are loosers they also screw up their experiment. Instead of using pure EU-Wolves they used all possible mongrels and AWD-crosses.
So the dogs bred by Frank are 100% Saarloos - it means "nobody know what breeds are inside"....

It is why they chated the pedigrees and not grounded new lines in register. If Frank would put those dogs in register everybody would know that he is using mixes and not pure CsW.
By cheating of the pedigrees he was able to deceive people by saying them that those dogs looks wolfish because "Crying Wolf is such wolfish line". This lie would never work by us (Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, aso...) because we know many CW dogs and we know how they look. But French people have not lot experiences with Crying wolf dogs - they saw few of them; usually the Saarloos alike lines bred by Edith. So they believed in it...
So at least in France and Finland the cheatings worked as the "breeders" planned...
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Old 29-03-2012, 20:08   #280
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Originally Posted by leila View Post
Im just asking - this "breeders" want to begin a new line, breding wolves and csv (or something like this)?
if they begin- why falshing a documents? now in pedigree this animals are simply dogs with a crying wolfs blood, heavy dogs blood and not moore- if see a pedigree not found any wolfish dog from what they can have this anatomy who have now.
when begin new line people make a breed book and begin from zero, without falsh pedigree with others dogs names.
this is true? I think yes
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