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Old 01-03-2011, 09:35   #141
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Exor von der Wolfsranch

Degenerative Myelopathie - PCR
Myelopathie:
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N
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Old 03-03-2011, 14:50   #142
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ARIMMINUM NOUAU

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Result Myelopathy
Result: Genotype: N/N
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:55   #143
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Arimminum Olcan

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Result Myelopathy
Result: Genotype: N/N
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:01   #144
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E' de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM

Conan von Keschla : N/DM
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Old 08-03-2011, 13:08   #145
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Its great to see these results here (and a bonus for the open honesty). I guarantee you if this was an American GSD forum everyone would list their dog as N/N (even if they didn't test).

Wait, no, most would respond "Its not in our lines so we don't test".
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:25   #146
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Super this cooperation of Sherdor , Lorry and all the others who also post N/DM results!
Thank you for open and honest also sharing of these results

And I hope you will send also a copy of the test result to [email protected]

In the past there was no DM test and I did breed with my female. After the test was validated my female and some of her offspring was tested. And my female was tested as N/DM and unfortunately one of her daughters as DM/DM (also these results are in the list of test results) And so for sure the father of this litter is at least carrier too.
The DM/DM female is now almost 5 years and has not any physical problem.

But now we have a possibility to test and no DM/DM dogs have to be born anymore!

On this moment all DNA test are expensive, but that also will probably change in future
I was at a study meeting about DNA tests were they did give info about the developing of the "all in one test " for dog breeds. In future breed clubs can ask to make an "all in one test" for all the specific validated tests for a breed. And these kind of test will be cheaper and so in future we also can negotiate with several labs for the best price!


HERE you can find the last update of the DM test results we did receive for the health info site.
But in the meantime a lot more CsW's were tested for DM!
So besides this list there are more DM test results known.

And I hope in future these owners will also share these results (with or without name of the dog)
And till that time I hope that all breeders (before breeding) will ask for to see the DM test results of the dogs they did choose for an combination !
And I hope they will only make combinations with tested dogs instead of playing Russian roulette..
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Old 09-03-2011, 13:51   #147
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Hello Mijke,

the University Bern say you need minimum an second factor for DM. Is there anything news on this?



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Old 09-03-2011, 13:52   #148
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Damon du Clos des Guerriers

Myelopathie Dégérative

Result: N/N
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Old 09-03-2011, 17:28   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijke View Post
Super this cooperation of Sherdor , Lorry and all the others who also post N/DM results!
Thank you for open and honest also sharing of these results

And I hope you will send also a copy of the test result to [email protected]
Bonjour à tous,

Je vais répondre en français car je n'ai pas trop le temps pour écrire mon texte dans ma langue maternelle et ensuite le traduire en Anglais ...(chacun utilisera donc reverso ou Translate, s'il le souhaite ....

Déjà MERCI à mijke, pour cet hommage appuyé aux éleveurs qui jouent le jeu de la transparence, c'est agréable de voir reconnaitre les efforts faits et je suis certaine que d'autres vont suivre ....

Toujours dans une optique de franchise, je tiens à préciser cependant qu'il n'est pas trés intelligent, ou du moins délicat de la part de WD, de faire, une fois de plus, des différences entre les personnes, (qui acceptent pourtant de donner le nom de leur chien en toute transparence) et de faire des camps différenciés, entre ceux qui scannent leurs résultats et ceux qui ne scannent pas

Pour ma part, je ne scanne pas mes résultats, mais ce n'est pas pour autant qu'il ne sont pas sûrs et officiels à 100 % !!!

Je ne vois pas l'intérêt que j'aurai, à affirmer publiquement que la plupart de mes chiens sont N/DM si ce n'était pas vrai !

Ce serait franchement stupide de ma part, Non ???


D'autant que tous les chiens porteurs ( qui vivent chez moi) sont ou seront systématiquement stérilisés, les uns derrière les autres....
Je n'y gagne donc strictement rien en terme d'élevage et je trouve désobligeant de laisser sous entendre que les résultats ne sont pas sûrs à 100 %

Une fois de plus, c'est une façon de laisser planer un doute sur la probité de certains....et c'est franchement dommage et surtout déplorable de toujours vouloir faire des camps et des scissions....

C'est exactement, comme le problème des cotations de dysplasies : ce n'est pas parcequ'elles ne sont pas transmises à WD, qu'elles ne sont pas faites !!!


Si j'accepte de jouer le jeu en toute transparence pour les chiens de mon affixe, ou ceux qui vivent chez moi, (alors même que j'arrêtes la reproduction) c'est uniquement pour aider, (à mon petit niveau) à tracer une carte réaliste de la situation des chiens sains, atteints, ou porteurs, pour une maladie que j'aurai dû prendre au sérieux un peu plus tôt ....

De même, je souligne un point important :

Ce n'est pas parceque WD ne reçois pas de résultas scannés, que les résultats officiels ne sont pas connus pour autant !....

Ils le sont, mais dans la base de données de Laboklin !

En effet, sur le formulaire de prélèvement de Laboklin, il y a un emplacement qui stipule que le propriétaire donne (ou non) son accord pour que les résultats soient rendus publiques ....
Or je signe, systématiquement cette partie du formulaire ....et tous les résultats MENTIONNENT clairement le nom de mes chiens pour la base de données de Laboklin

Voilà, désolée de la longueur de ce texte en français, mais je tenais à dire mon ressenti ....
Inutile d'ouvrir une polémique sur le sujet, ça ne changera pas mon point de vue personnel !

Cordialement à tous .....

Last edited by Lorry - MLS; 09-03-2011 at 17:46.
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Old 09-03-2011, 17:46   #150
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Quote:
D'autant que tous les chiens porteurs ( qui vivent chez moi) sont ou seront systématiquement stérilisés, les uns derrière les autres....
Which would be not the right breeding policy. Too many dogs in the breed are carriers. Also I would like to inlight that, as the DM test is good to have, it's currently an incomplet test, other genes/factors are involved to develop the disease (+ highly presumption that N/DM can also devlop the disease). So sterilize all N/DM is not the right solution.
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Old 09-03-2011, 18:10   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elf View Post
So sterilize all N/DM is not the right solution.

D'après vous, vouloir stériliser tous les chiens porteurs (N/DM), n'est pas une bonne solution ?.

Vous avez peut être raison .... mais à mes yeux, quand je vois le % des chiens qui s'avèrent finalement porteurs, issus par exemple d'un seul de mes reproducteurs mâles, porteur lui aussi, je l'estime trop important, pour jouer à chaque fois à la roulette russe....


Pourquoi, refaire des portées avec un mâle porteur (avec une femelle saine) et prendre d'avance le risque de générer de nouveaux porteurs. ???
De même, comment réusiir à assainir son cheptel, si à chaque fois, on réitère les mêmes erreurs (des mariages à risque )...?

Sincèrement, je n'en vois pas l'utilité .....En tout cas à mon niveau personnel et avec mes propres chiens ....

Pour le reste, je laisse à chacun, le soin de décider en son âme et conscience de ce qu'il convient de faire (ou pas) pour le futur de la race ....

Last edited by Lorry - MLS; 09-03-2011 at 18:20.
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Old 09-03-2011, 19:01   #152
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IMHO it's important that breeders realize that they can keep N/DM dogs in breeding program as such dogs may have others very positive part therefor are important for the breed (in addition at the end 50% of CSV may be carrier).
I really understand breeders want to "clean" their own kennel but if you look at how distributed control work (e.g. emergent behaviour) you will see that each one action is important. This has already been done in the past (sorry I forgot the breed name) this breed was affected by an eye disease, the breeding club + breeders follow a restrictive breeding program, at the end the disease almost disappear so this has been 'working', but what this gene narrowing bring to the breed is another new eye disease more serious than the other one. The DM test result is just another part of the breeding value of a dog, but not an absolute 'not for breeding' mark.

Last edited by elf; 09-03-2011 at 19:05.
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Old 09-03-2011, 19:12   #153
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I agree, elf. There are (IMO) more improtant factors that need to be looked at like hips and elbows. Relatively speaking, DM is rather eacy to breed it out, any breeder can eliminate the disease on one generation (breed an a/a to a N/N - all puppies will be carriers) and eliminate the genes themselves (affected and carriers) in two generations.

Plus, it doesn't look like as high as a percentage of affected vlcaks contract the symptoms as in other breeds like Germans shepherds and they've noticed dogs who were on a diet where "fats" were listed early in the ingredients list had a much higher chance of developing symptoms.

The gene pool is too small, especially here in the USA, to eliminte any dog solely on their DM test results (but it is still extremely important to keep track of it!).
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Old 09-03-2011, 19:42   #154
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Il va de soi que votre façon de voir les choses (et d'en tourner l'explication) va au final faire plaisir à plus d'un éleveur !

Chouette continuons de reproduire !
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:41   #155
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exactly that was and is an apprehension of many breeders.
the only one mated N / N and by that, then the problem of inbreeding with their years and gets in a few episodes.

if the mathematically about 50% are from an N / DM x N / N breeding N / N.
then you have a couple of years away and the opportunity to get to race clean without the gene pool to shrink too much.

and there are many more points which are to be observed in a breeding. This includes HD, ED, standard and character, inbreeding, ect.

I think we are on the right path but it was also only a "small" number of dogs tested in relation to the total population
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:44   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS View Post
Il va de soi que votre façon de voir les choses (et d'en tourner l'explication) va au final faire plaisir à plus d'un éleveur !

Chouette continuons de reproduire !
Here is what Joan R. Coates said:

"The 'DM' allele is very common in some breeds. In these breeds, an overly aggressive breeding program to eliminate the dogs testing DM/DM or N/DM might be destructive to the breed as a whole because it would eliminate a large fraction of the high quality dogs that would otherwise contribute desirable qualities to the breed.
...
Summary: We recommend that dog breeders take into consideration the DM test results as they plan their breeding programs; however, they should not over-emphasize this test result. Instead, the test result is one factor among many in a balanced breeding program."
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:47   #157
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The 2 safe puppies (N/N) i have in my litter tested are very different than the others... they look like weaker than the carrier (N/DM) or the affected male (DM/DM) ...

That also means that a lot of gene are linked to the mutated SOD1...

... and if in one hand you think you could be safe according to DM disease, maybe in other hand, you can select also weak point of the breed !

(maybe it could also be coincidence... but who knows ?)
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Old 10-03-2011, 20:13   #158
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EZECHIELE OLIM PALUS

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Result Myelopathy
Result: Genotype: N/DM
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Old 10-03-2011, 22:05   #159
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Ckoo'Mah-Akk de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM

Il en ressort pour l'instant que, sur 6 chiens testés, issus du même père, une seule femelle est N/N .....
On est bien loin du taux de transmission évalué à 50 % !
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Old 10-03-2011, 22:51   #160
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I can read French but I cannot write it, so please pardon me .

The 50% possibility of transmission is on every puppy. It means that it is like throwing a coin in the air and seeing if it exits a face or the other. Every throw has 50% for each face BUT it does not depend on the other throws. On 10 throws, you could have 3 face ONE and 7 face TWO, it does not mean that the probability is 30/70, it is 50/50 but every launch is independent. The same goes for the puppies... I hope I have been clear enough ^^.
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