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Old 15-03-2012, 23:26   #81
z Peronówki
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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
I do not know how to explain in english better. But it will be always a problem, if dogs go immediatly at front. Nobody here in germany want this border military dogs!
Nobody say that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs must be aggressive. Look on breed the standard - here is nothing about agression:

Lively, very active, capable of endurance, docile with quick reactions. Fearless and courageous. Suspicious. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

Now look on the last sentence - it means you can use them for many types of work. They can make great Rescue Dogs. And Germany is the best example. CsW owners from your country do not make protection work but train their dogs to track lost people. With the French crosses they would be not able to do this.
And there are many possibilities to use CsW.

You can change the way how you will "use" Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. But you can not change their character.

And there are more examples already visible. One of the most winning dogs in CZ and SK last time is a 'walking zombie'. People who are interested in breeding 'show lines" and 'sofa dogs' love him saying that he has great character - very calm and timid (he really behaves like on drugs). People who work with dogs and try to preserve the 'right' character 'hate' him because you can not do with such dog ANYTHING. He is useless as working dog. In the case of rescue work: the lost person would die because the dog will have no mood to look for somebody and if he would - the person would die because the anemic dog will need DAYS to run several kilometres.

And the same I can say about the crosses bred in France. I saw some of those dogs - some were 'zombies', some were scared like Saarloos. Only one showed bound with his owner. The rest was indifferent to everything. They were plants - not dogs.

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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
And therefore animals like Demoniak are very important for the breed. And as I showed you in the picture of Doz and Demoniak, they do look like twins! Here is another one.
I agree they can be important for THE breed. They can be interesting for THE American Wolfdogs or THE Indian Wolfdogs. I think also THE Saarloos Wolfhond breeders can be happy to have the possibility to use them.
But our breed do not need them. Look - Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs were made by crossing European Wolf (from the Carpathians) and German Shepherd Dog (old DDR lines). NOTHING ELSE.

What is Demoniak? A mongrel. There is a bit of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. There is also a Wolf(dog) (American? Tundra?). What else? I doubt that Frank&co. used pure American Wolf - I think they took an American Wolfdogs. And you know that American Wolfdogs consist of several breeds. Most of them unknown but in the most cases American breeders mix wolves with Huskies or Malamutes (they do not use GSD).
Do you think that our breed needs mongrels? Christian, there are many mongrels in our animals shelters. Some of them are pretty 'wolfish'. But it is not a reason to use them for mixing with CsW. Because any mix and any mongrel is just an unknown Pandora box.

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Originally Posted by hanninadina View Post
I noticed the offspring of Demoniak and Doz does not look really like csw. I was wondering too. Marvellous wolfdogs, but not like csw.... Maybe that is genetics - or you are right.
I'm right. You will see. It is the rule of genetics. Do you remeber the experiment of Konrad Lorenz who crossed Poodles and Jackals? Always the fist generation was pretty similar. First in the next generations there were diverse animals born. It is the same with France - in the first generation(s) of crosses was pretty similar to each other. Now more and more different "breeds" are visible there. We can see dogs which resemble mixes of Husky and GSD. Mixes of White Shepherd and husky. Mixes of American Wolves. Mixes of Mamamute and GSD.
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Old 16-03-2012, 08:19   #82
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No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.
eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please
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Old 16-03-2012, 09:39   #83
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Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ... For information in France we have an exam to have the pedigree and breed with our dogs ..and the juge accept or not only if the dog is in the standard ...if for you have a wolfish type is not the standard shame on you because it s the standard ... Nothing else are in my blood line than what is wrote on pedigree ... Sorry if you don t have same result with your marriage .... Margo never use same blood and never crying wolf the most wolfish dog in Europe with passo del lupo ...after it s your choie and don t blâme if in few tzars your smaller smaller dog arrive ... Use allways sale Male Like eligo don t give a good example for you Margo who want give best chance to our breed ... Money money money ... Perhaps you can cross him with poodle ... I can give you some French kennel adress ... ) best regards drama forum ... For your information if few people like to be manipulate like lamb in this marketing PERON ....not me ... !!!" God save this queen " but not me !!! Best of the best for you ... Frank capiez ... (big honor to be so important in few moment in tchecoslovaquian wolfdog world )
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Old 16-03-2012, 10:37   #84
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Originally Posted by Morian View Post
eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please
Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean. For them working ability is there when you can teach the dog to sit for a treat. For people that work dogs it is the stamina to proceed the trained work under all cicurmstances. Nothing to do with aggressiveness but with the will to work and the ability to ignore disturbing surroundings and of course endurance in concentration.
But working dogs need owners to be in charge and funktion as a pack leader, that means they also ask abilities of their owners, to have a show dog is much easier and less challenging.

There is a thread on the German forum "Vorfälle bei der Nacht der Wölfe" that shows very nicely the way of thinking in both groups. Christian with a panicking AWH met people with CSW. Both kind of dogs showed typical canine behaviour and typical "breed"behaviour, one owner wasn´t in charge...

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

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Old 16-03-2012, 10:53   #85
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Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean.
first. i don't mean working abilities, the standard does. and second. ability doesn't mean diploma. dog must be able to work, but nobody is obliged to. by the way. not too long ago i heard something very funny from some breeder. he told "we breed WOLVES, which must look wolfish, must not bark and work like gsd" i wonder why do they need csv for this, the breed created for "upgrade" of working abilities, endurance and health of gsd. i don't want to say that csv must work like gsd and this is the main point, i like wolfish csv too, but we must remember about the standard which takes into account both things - and temperament/working abilities, either wolfish look. it clearly describes typical temperament and exterior both.


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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
this is really sad, i'm agree with you. many people are "purchased" by exotic look, they don't know and don't care about other sides of the breed which are not worse than just wolfish look. now i have pups and 99% of people name exterior only when i ask why csv. but i still don't think that working dog must look ugly but we have what we have. some people care, some don't. i wonder about another thing: why dogs which don't not meet the standard are still called csv, used in breeding etc. i don't mean demoniak or other mixes only, i mean all dogs which "don't fit" - shy dogs, "plant-alike" dogs, dogs with serious discrepancy in the exterior etc. but this is a rhetorical question, oh yes.
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Old 16-03-2012, 11:13   #86
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.
This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

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Old 16-03-2012, 13:43   #87
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This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

Koboldine
yep. I tell you about this who are in Lithuania when I know hystory and situation in my country. People not want a NICE wolfyyyy, they want a CSW with good behavior, when almost 90 % CSW live in city in a flat, mas day per day have contact with transport, people, others animals, mas have good obedience, be social WITHOUT shy, mas and defence theys master if need this when owner back to home in night. They want a THIS CSW from what this breed and born and grown- working - house- family member, not nice plant in garden only.
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:35   #88
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No it's me who will not give you puppies :-) :-) :-) :-)
you do not know for Ariminium? She asked me two babies, one male and one female! it proposed to double the price for the first choice! ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Questo è il messaggio scritto da Filippo per Sophie su facebook
"11 ore fa
Monica Gambini
  • Sophie m'a demandé qui je Sarka vos animaux de compagnie, vos chiens sont dans l'amour, et en particulier Guerya et Graal. Je ne m'inquiète pas si ils CLC - MIX ou les loups, j'ai déjà une femelle qui m'a vendu Sarka et j'adore cette race et le loup. Je suis désolé pour ce malentendu. Je ne suis pas un éleveur de mon travail et mon mari est un constructeur. Nous vivons à la campagne en Toscane, si vous venez en Italie sont heureux de vous accueillir. La Femme de la CLC (Wapi) que nous avons est pour moi et mon mari comme un fils, est notre ombre. J'espère que vous pourrez comprendre. Désolé pour le français, j'ai traduit avec google.
    Cordialement."




Sophie asked me who I. Sarka said me that your animal are bery beatiful and in particular Guerya and Graal.For me is not important if this dog are CLC-MIX or wolf because I have just one femele from Sarka and I like CLC and wolf too.
I'm sorry for this misurdestanding .I'm not one breeder and is not my work and my husband is a constructor.We live in Tuscany in rural and if you want to come in Italy you are my guest.My femele CLC (Wapi) is for me and my husband like daughter.I hope that you can understand.




I confirm that Filippo asked me two puppies from Doz and Demoniak of Sophie only because filippo like this animal and he promise me don't use never in reproduction,because Filippo is Arimminum Extra Edition owner's but he have official agreement with me and in this agreement is written that Extra Edition will be cover only one male that I will choice.Filippo like my opinion in breeding.
About double price I can guarantee that Filippo was prepared to pay for time normal price for the first choice. But now Filippo confirm me that he does not want puppies free price too .
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Old 16-03-2012, 17:18   #89
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Hello Sarka

First
I can not take reservations, I have many reservations already, so I do not sell my babies to breeders, families only! !
2nd
You are a liar, you have me phone a few times! ! I telephone my statement that proves it! ! You phone to Jessica several times too! !! You asked a male for your customer and a female for you! ! The price does not matter, the principal was that you have the first choice!!!!
So you asked the secret!!!! I have betrayed your trust! ! You want to know why I have betrayed your trust? Because you are a friend of Margo and Daiva! ! They told me you wanted a baby for DNA testing! ! Sarka why? Why? You do not like animals. .
3rd
also all italiy know that you phone Suski has to have the same blood as Doz last week!!!

Whats happened Sarka, why you are a liar , you are afraid ?
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Old 16-03-2012, 17:26   #90
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So you asked the secret!!!! I have betrayed your trust! ! You want to know why I have betrayed your trust? Because you are a friend of Margo and Daiva! ! They told me you wanted a baby for DNA testing! ! Sarka why? Why? You do not like animals. .
Sophie, I never spoke about it with you. In the fact I do not speak with you neither by phone nor by email. Please show me the proofs - you have my permit to publish our email? (chat?) exchange here on the forum for public view. Because I know nothing like this ever existed.
So please be so king and explain me the whole situation. I do not want to be a puppet in this theater.
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Old 16-03-2012, 17:40   #91
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They told me you wanted a baby for DNA testing! !
Great idea, and why not?
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Old 16-03-2012, 19:08   #92
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Because you are a friend of Margo and Daiva! ! They told me you wanted a baby for DNA testing! ! Sarka why? Why? You do not like animals. .
3rd
also all italiy know that you phone Suski has to have the same blood as Doz last week!!!

Whats happened Sarka, why you are a liar , you are afraid ?
sory but you my dear are now liar- I know Sarka like a good breeder but we not are a friends.
I think she very like animals, but not love a lie and falshing
p.s. I too give a permision for publishing this texts about your conspiracy theory

I go to buy a popcorn
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Old 16-03-2012, 19:21   #93
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Sophie, is there any problem having the DNA of descendants of Demoniak, Doz and Vendetta x Mephisto? Why should I be afraid?
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Old 16-03-2012, 19:22   #94
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Ok .. Because you block my words on this forum and can t speack Sophie post for me ... I have some mails from
Sarka who want from my kennel our blood line ( Volos / Dracula and demoniak ) she explain that it was a co owning with some friends ... After i was close to Sophie when she propose to buy 2 puppies from us to dog show and breeding ... Strange file not ?? For bad blood line famous kennel write to us ... Of course our puppies are not use in bad intentions and for that I explain to Sophie that she can dream all the nigth .. Philippot or anybody else can dream on ... Regards lamb of this forum ... Frank capiez ( if some need copy of mails I receive I can give ) money money money ..
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Old 16-03-2012, 19:42   #95
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Message from Franck, because he steal can't post

Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ... For information in France we have an exam to have the pedigree and breed with our dogs ..and the juge accept or not only if the dog is in the standard ...if for you have a wolfish type is not the standard shame on you because it s the standard ... Nothing else are in my blood line than what is wrote on pedigree ... Sorry if you don t have same result with your marriage .... Margo never use same blood and never crying wolf the most wolfish dog in Europe with passo del lupo ...after it s your choie and don t blâme if in few tzars your smaller smaller dog arrive ... Use allways sale Male Like eligo don t give a good example for you Margo who want give best chance to our breed ... Money money money ... Perhaps you can cross him with poodle ... I can give you some French kennel adress ... ) best regards drama forum ... For your information if few people like to be manipulate like lamb in this marketing PERON ....not me ... !!!" God save this queen " but not me !!! Best of the best for you ... Frank capiez ... (big honor to be so important in few moment in tchecoslovaquian wolfdog world )
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Old 16-03-2012, 20:07   #96
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Message from Franck
gosh this make my day )))))) zero info from genetic, linebreed and breed hystory.
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Old 16-03-2012, 20:10   #97
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*In France, it is exact that we have the confirmation.
*Only this confirmation is relatively easily made.
*It is not at all a quality security at least in this race.

It is of no use to speak about the confirmation or still about the championship. It is moreover very hypocritical, I am sure not to be the only Frenchman to have heard(understood) some comments of judges on the edges of the rings of exhibition....

To return to the subject there, yes Demoniak is a champion of France, it is I am sure, and me includes him(it) a very big pride for its owner, but for other judges, these atypical dogs born in his breeding are far from being a representative of the race....

Now we can speak for a long time about all this here, regrettably it will arrange nothing....

The only thing which reassures me, it is the experience which I have of the life, sooner or later the truth will come out .....
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Old 16-03-2012, 20:52   #98
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The funny thing is that these people are constantly lying although being aware what they did and complaining about the rest of the world treating them badly.
True politicians of the worst kind...

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Old 16-03-2012, 20:55   #99
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The funny thing is that these people are constantly lying although being aware what they did and complaining about the rest of the world treating them badly.
True politicians of the worst kind...

Michael

I like this comparison
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Old 16-03-2012, 20:56   #100
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Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ...
Yes, you right. I have problem with it. As many people do. Not personally - I will not use any of those mongrels. But there is something bigger: you are destroying this breed. And soon or later the breed will get banned in France because of you and your illegal wolf crosses which can be really dangerous. I hope only that this ban will not spread in Europe.

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For information in France we have an exam to have the pedigree and breed with our dogs ..
Which exam... a DOG SHOW. Judgement written by a judge. I can arrange a paper for you from a judge that you are breeding sheeps....
In short: don't make me laugh.
We do not need exams but DNA tests.

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Nothing else are in my blood line than what is wrote on pedigree ... Sorry if you don t have same result with your marriage ....
Thanks God I do not have the same results as you... Because I do not cross my dogs with mixes. Thanks to this you can see by all of them Jolly (and not the 'neighbors' mixes as it is the case by you).

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Originally Posted by hekate View Post
Margo never use same blood and never crying wolf the most wolfish dog in Europe with passo del lupo ...
Frank, do me a favour: read finally the breed standard.... Read a bit about the breed.

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Money money money ..
Yes, you right. But not about me but about you. Lets see who is cheating the pedigrees. Suski who never bred any wolfish dog. Passo del Lupo who has in Italy huge competition of much better breeders than he is and because of it he had problems with selling his puppies. Now you - in France where there are already serious breeders who have pure Wolfdogs and who you are not able to defeat.
All of you would be never able to sell the amount of puppies which you produce. Especially that with your lack of knowledge about this breed you would never be able to breed any wolfish dog.

Now we can read that the people offer you double prices. In the hard time when other French breeders sell really nice puppies for normal amount of money. You see... people want to pay double prices for dogs with fake pedigrees (and they want to pay such huge amount of money because the EXACTLY know that the dogs are not pure but crosses ). It is the only reason why your business is running and other businessmen who want to make money with dogs are joining you.
But remember: one day the 'purity DNA test for Wolfdogs' will be done and all of these deceived people will come to you and ask compensations. Because you didn't sell them Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but mongrels. And it apply to whole 'Mixes mafia' in Europe.

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Perhaps you can cross him with poodle ... I can give you some French kennel adress ... )
Please do it - post here the list of French kennels which you do not like and who do not like you and this what you are doing. In this way we will have a list of serious French breeders posted here....

Now serious:
I see you decided to lie till the end - it is your decision. But we know the truth, you and me know exactly that those dogs are crosses and you breed dogs with fake pedigrees. We know what is told next to the show ring, in the phone calls and in the private talks. You are mixing your dogs with mixes and it is well known. For this reason you do really not need to speak with me - you will not convince me because I know that you are a liar. But you can still try to convince some poor people on the French forum. Maybe they will still believe in your words. I will not (you know it). And it is boring (although also somehow funny) to read your assurance that the dogs have real parents written in the pedigrees.
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