SIBO & Inflamatory bowel disease

[Rona]

Hopefully things will improve soon and Tristan will grow up to be a fine and strong dog, which everbody here wishes would happen.

Being a small pup now he will probably forget his early days with you, but I'm sure he will always remember the feeling that his "pack" protected him when he was in need. Wolfdogs, like wolves, are very loyal and grateful.

We experienced this with Tina... rescued and adopted her when she was a little puppy and for the following 14 years she'd follow us even into fire... Now she's very old and sick , and we're struggling for her again!

[nicholas]

Thank you Rona for your kind words. I wish you the best with your dog.

Here are some pic of Tristan before i took him to the vet. The last one is taken in order for you to see how skinny he was. Now he looks a lot better. I will take some pics and post them as well.

Thank you again for your support.

Nicholas

[nicholas]

I wanted to let you know that Tristan's condition did not change. There was a temporary improvement but then the diarrhea came back. I took him two days ago to the largest animal clinic in Greece. He stayed for 2 days and run every kind of tests there is. The results up to now show nothing. We are awating results for parasites. They run all tests available for parasites. And here is the ugly part. They have him under a treatment with cortizone (injections) for 3 days, 2 pills/day called tagamet and 2 pills/da called medrol. If he responds well in treatmetn the vet said that it will be an indirect confirmation that he is suffering from IBD. If he does not then they must take a piece of his small intestine for biopsy. The vet explained to me that IBD is a general term and the real cause of IBD can be a number of things. If he responds to the treatmetn it means that with a careful diet he will be just fine despite the IBD. If he does not then he most likely has a problem to a specific part of the intestine that cannot be treated. In that case the dig must be put doen cause he will die anyway. I really hope that we will manage to avoid the worst case scenario ant live together for many years.

[Rona]

We're keeping our fingers crossed!

[nicholas]

Thank you Rona, for your kiond words.

[nicholas]

Dear all,

Today we got the results for the parasite tests of Tristan. It is a good day cause we found the answer we have been looking for. He is diagnosed with Giardia. The bad thing is that it is a difficult parasite to get rid off a dog's system and is contageous to humen. However i was told that the rate of success for the dog to clean up completely is some 90% wiht some new drugs. After the 3 day treatmetn everything arounf him must be crystal clean as if he lives inside an operating room. There is a chance that the eggs won't leave his system immediately and that he may presetn again the same symptoms in the future but the vets are otpimistic that even if this happens we will be able with a second cycle to clen him completely. I will keep you posted for the results. His therapy ends on Sunday night.

Best
Nicholas

[Nebulosa]

Probably others dogs comes from the same breeder have the same problem see how easy contagious is the Giardia, I not want guilty anyone, Giardia is very common here principally at north and central states wich the number of infected dogs are closely to 80%, I never see a good breeder who take the minimal care with his dogs have puppies with that problem, less send then at new home with that (!!!), but that is sigtly common happen when the puppy commes from puppy mills or merchants who only sold puppy's seing the money, as I say, I not want guilty anyone, but that rarelly will happen with a good breeder, who take the minimal care with his dogs.
In that case, I think serious that you must serching for the justice, Giardia can leave time to show symptoms, so, see what you have write here, the puppy probably comes with Giardia from the kennel, if the vet comfirme that the breeder must pay all treatment and exames who you have made.

One difficult of the Giardia treatment is the desinfection, so you will have to desinfect your home for kill all possibles eggs prevent one reinfection or one human infection, I believe your vet have talk with you about that, if not, ask he/she how is the best way to desinfect your home.

Good luck with your pup!
Congrat's for your actitud.

[Mirkawolf]

That sounds very strange to me. You see, I also bought puppy who started insane diarrhoea within two or three days. I took the puppy straight to the vet and they diagnosed giardia right away, from the sample of the diarrhoea. I can´t believe it took your veterinarian more than a month to come to the same conclusion! However, thanks God they finally figured it out.

Anyways, if it is only giardia, don´t worry, it will be fine. My pup was at that time 7 weeks old, she got antibiotics and was on strict diet for 14 days (rice+boiled chicken) and after that everything was fine. She never had problems again. And we were not told any special precautions, nothing. Nobody catched it from the dog (it is hardly possible, if you simply wash your hands enough).

Good luck!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Mirka is right. you just use Fenbendazol (Panacur) or Metronidazol for 5!!! days (Three days are not enough!) , then pause for about two weeks then do another 5!!! days treatment.
They get resistent with the time.
Girardia gets more and more common and should be the first thing to look for repeatedly with the symptoms your dog showed.

Ina

[nicholas]

In order to reach to that conclusion i had to change the vet 3 times. The first i took him was a woman who initially told me that i had to put the dog down since he has a serious problem. I could not accept such a behaviour form a vet. The easy solution for her, to kill the dog. The next one was more porfessional but did not test him for parasites. HE was the first to talk about SIBO and IBD. He gave him flagyl of 1000mg per day for 3 weeks! Sinc this did not imporve his condition i took him to tha largest vet clinic in Greece 2 hours away from where i live. It is a clinic responsible for the caring of the animals in the Athens zoo. There they tested him for Giardia. The total cost reached more than 1000 Euros. Forgive me for being bold but i do not give a shit about the cost if i can make my frined feel good. I am not going to ask anybody to compensate me for this. The problem is that he is going under a heavier treatment than flagyl since Giardia has been immune to the specific drug after taking half of the dose he should have for 3 weeks. (in order for Giardia to pass he should have taken 2500mg per day and he was given 1000mg a day). I already talked to the vet and the breeder. The vet told me that either he got it form the kennel or froma pet hotel i took him for 4 days. Even if he got it from the kennel (the pet had taken the pill against parasites from the breeder) there is a big chance that the breeder did not know about it. You see the eggs sit around until the dog is stressed or very anxious only then do they hatch and the parasites get out of the cyst. My friend flew to Athens and the trip cause him enough stress to turn him from a carrier to a patient. The other animals are not stressed. The good thing is that at least we know what hte problem is and we can fix it.

Best,
Nick

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Even if he got it from the kennel (the pet had taken the pill against parasites from the breeder) there is a big chance that the breeder did not know about it. You see the eggs sit around until the dog is stressed or very anxious only then do they hatch and the parasites get out of the cyst. My friend flew to Athens and the trip cause him enough stress to turn him from a carrier to a patient. The other animals are not stressed. The good thing is that at least we know what hte problem is and we can fix it.

I am not so sure about this. If the pup brought it from the kennel, you can be sure it would appear at the other pups at the kennel too. I had my pup under treatment for giardia for about two days, when the breeder called that his other pups started diarrhoea too and asked me what kind of treatment we used.. And they were still at his kennel, so no big change for them happened.
But I agree with the vet, that the pup could pick it up easily somewhere else, especially if the poor little pup was in some pet hotel

Anyways, good that you found finally good and reasonable veterinarian. The puppy must weakened by all this giardia and diarrhoea for so long, poor guy! Oh and I remember that after we finished the antibiotics for giardia, our vet gave us some special pasta with the right bacteria to restore the microflora in the pups intestines (cause the antibiotics killed everything). I can´t remember the name unfortunatelly, perhaps Ina will know. Maybe you should ask for that thing too, it will help the pup get back in shape.

[GalomyOak]

Plain white yogurt (small quantity) around 15 ml 2x day can help to promote growth of beneficial bacteria - the acidipholus and the environment of the yogurt both help the "good" bacteria grow. Haha, I say that as a dog owner, and also a person who has had a bacterial infection - yogurt works for both people and animals! Good luck with your pup!

[nicholas]

Dera all,

I tooko todayt Tristan from the vet and he has just finished the first phase of his therapy with Valbazen. He took it for 3 days. and now we expect to see the results. COuld you pls inform me as to by which day did the feces started to return to normal? How long did it take for the dog to completely stop the diarhoea?

Thanks again.

Nick

[nicholas]

I would also liek your help on another issue. Tristan eats his feces. That is a major problem with Giardia since he will never get over it. Unfortunately, my wife and i are away from home for 7 hours a day. DO you have any idea how i can make him stop eating his feces while i am away?

Thanks in advance.

Nick

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by nicholas

I would also liek your help on another issue. Tristan eats his feces. That is a major problem with Giardia since he will never get over it. Unfortunately, my wife and i are away from home for 7 hours a day. DO you have any idea how i can make him stop eating his feces while i am away?

Thanks in advance.

Nick

Many puppies do this especially when they have intestinal problems. It stops when the intestinal problem stops.
As I wrote before you have to repeat the treatment after 1-2 weeks, otherwise it starts all over again.
But don´t worry too much, the dogs get resistent against Giardia after some time of stabilisation.

[nicholas]

I understand, but isn't it difficult to get rid of Giardia if he keeps on eating his feces? How is he supposed to get over it if he keeps putting it in his system?

Ina do you have any idea how i can make him stop this?

With regards to the treatment, the vet suggested that we take again sample from his feces on Wednesday and SUnday. Should his feces start to become harder and we will continue with valbazen. If he shows no porgress he suggested to use fysiogen (tinadozole) which is a drug used in humans for giardia and not penocur. What do you think?

Is he going to be alright in the end after all this? What if he has been having it for more than 2 motnhs? What kind of damage his intestines might have suffered? Do you have any product to propose for probiotics and to restore the flora in his intestine?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by nicholas

I understand, but isn't it difficult to get rid of Giardia if he keeps on eating his feces? How is he supposed to get over it if he keeps putting it in his system?

He will put them into his system his whole life long, he is not the only dog with Giardia and Giardia stay in the ground quite a time. The dogs get immune against them and don´t get ill any longer.

Originally Posted by nicholas

Ina do you have any idea how i can make him stop this?

He will stop by his own and you can teach him at least not to do so when you are near but this will take some time.

Originally Posted by nicholas

With regards to the treatment, the vet suggested that we take again sample from his feces on Wednesday and SUnday. Should his feces start to become harder and we will continue with valbazen. If he shows no porgress he suggested to use fysiogen (tinadozole) which is a drug used in humans for giardia and not penocur. What do you think?

We normally don´t use those drugs in Germany for dogs with Giardia. I work as a vet for an animal shelter with around 140 dogs and the same amount of cats. We have a big Giardia problem and every new dog starts with this diarrhia sooner or later. We use Fenbendazol (Panacur) for 5 days with 14 days break and repeat the treatment. For older dogs or dogs that still tend to have problems we use Metronidazol the second time or in the thame sheme like Panacur. You even can combine these drugs for severe cases.
Till now every dog including the very young and small ones in very bad conditions got over it quite soon.
For a dog with a history like yours I would spare the second test and just do a second treatment, if he gets problems again I would do another test, it doesn´t have to be Giardia.

Originally Posted by nicholas

Is he going to be alright in the end after all this? What if he has been having it for more than 2 motnhs? What kind of damage his intestines might have suffered? Do you have any product to propose for probiotics and to restore the flora in his intestine?

If Giardia is his only problem he will just have a period of soft faeces becaus the bactirias in his intestines have to restore. A diet and Joghurt as recommended will do. Don´t panic he will get over it.

Ina

[nicholas]

Thyank you very much for your help. I appreciate it.

Best,
Nicholas

[nicholas]

Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that Tristna is ....a new dog! His diarrhoea has stoped, his stooll are gettign firmer by the day. He is alive an energetic as he should have been! I am realy happy for him. We are waiting the results from the second test and on Tuesday he will start the second cycle with valbazen. Other than that he is having feces once and sometimes twice a day (probably because of his diet with chicken and rice).

Thank you all for your kind words and support.

Best,
Nicholas

[Angelika]

good news

regards
Angelika