It anesthetizes for HD

pedrocalle · 02-10-2010, 21:35

I have to do the X-ray photographies for HD and believe that it is necessary to use anesthesia. Does someone know if there are problems with certain anesthesias? Is it possible to use anyone?

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-10-2010, 09:03

You can do a totally normal anaesthesia, there are no specialities in the breed.

Ina

Rona · 03-10-2010, 09:28

From what I was told by my vet, some csv are a bit "slower" than other dogs. It takes them longer to fall asleep and later to wake. So there is no need to give bigger doses, but just wait longer for the effect.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-10-2010, 09:40

Our dogs needed quite high doses and woke up very soon but nothing really out of normal range.

Ina

Mikael · 03-10-2010, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona

From what I was told by my vet, some csv are a bit "slower" than other dogs. It takes them longer to fall asleep and later to wake. So there is no need to give bigger doses, but just wait longer for the effect.

Thanks

Hronec my male, needs full dose, but did neeeeeeewer fall a sleep

but he was very lazy...
I anaesthesize him two times, it was the same thing time no two.

Rasty my female vent under very fast a very deeeeeep, but she was also up very fast after the antidope...

Hronec had a bit of a hangover, but Rasty was OK, just like normal...

Anyone having more experience of anaesthesizeing a CsV please tell

Very best regards / Mikael

pedrocalle · 03-10-2010, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

You can do a totally normal anaesthesia, there are no specialities in the breed.

Ina

Thank you for your answers. I understand that it must go depending on the corporal weight of the dog, and as it happens to us costs mas and to others less. Is it like that?

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-10-2010, 19:16

Sorry, but I didn´t understand your question. Normally you give the drugs depending on the bodyweight and what you need to do. For a x-ray you don´t need a very deep anaesthesia because you cause no pain and simply need the muscle relaxation.

Ina

Gypsy Wolf · 05-10-2010, 02:26

Is full anesthesia required for HD films in your country?
Here in the US, you can anesthetize or not... personally, I prefer not... yes, there are some who feel it gives a less accurate reading (makes the hips look tighter than they are), but I get to go into the xray room and help hold my dog, relax them and make it a pleasant and less risky procedure.
Even without anesthesia, you can clearly see the depth of the acetabulum, shape of the femoral head, etc... the only thing that cannot be evaluated as clearly is laxity...

GalomyOak · 05-10-2010, 03:10

I always tell my vet to use the same procedure they would for a greyhound/sighthound - another CSV breeder told me to do this early on, I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I think it makes my vet pay a little more attention for problems if nothing else. When I did PennHip (required anesthesia), the vet had a really hard time getting my female to go to sleep - both dogs tested had very quick recovery. She recently had a similar problem going to sleep when she had to have emergency surgery to put stitches in a wound. With greyhounds, they have some issues, I think because of little body fat (like many of our dogs, although probably not as much as a greyhound

). There are certain types of medicine the vets will use, and others they will not for greyhounds...not sure of the names though. I have never had any serious problems.

Gypsy Wolf · 05-10-2010, 05:12

When I was a Vet Tech, we prefered to use Diprivan (Propofol) to induce anesthesia, and then immediately switch them to the inhaled Isoflourane. Diprivan is also used in human anesthesia - when I worked in the human Operating Room, we called it "milk of amnesia" as it looks just like milk. As an aside, that is the drug that Michael Jackson ODed on.
Both were the safest drugs for the majority of critters. We used Ketamine in Cats for induction, but again, onto Isoflourane... Iso is very safe and metabolized very quickly, so as soon as they are off it, they come around in about 20 minutes, and very quickly regain normal consciousness.
Depending on the procedure, though, a muscle relaxer and a narcotic are often administered (almost always the case in human anesthesia, but situation-dependent for critters).
Proper anesthesia, in humans, is a combo of an "amnestic" (a drug that makes you unconscious and removes any memory of the event - like Diprivan), a "analgesic" - a pain reliever, like a narcotic, and a drug that relaxes EVERY uscle in your body - called a "paralytic" as it literally paralyses you) - to this day "Curare"- based paraytics are used (Curare is the "drug" that the poison frogs in the rain forest make that the native roll their dart tips in to paralyze prey).
As a Tech, I mostly saw Diprivan and Isoflourane and for invasive procedures, a mild paralytic to reduce bleeding, inflammation and pain. Generally a narcotic injection followed the procedure, but not always.
Nowadays, I INSIST my vet prescribe pain meds if the situation calls for it (like a spay). THey have been traditionally reticent to do so, resulting in severe discomfort for the poor critters...

michaelundinaeichhorn · 05-10-2010, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Is full anesthesia required for HD films in your country?
Here in the US, you can anesthetize or not... personally, I prefer not... yes, there are some who feel it gives a less accurate reading (makes the hips look tighter than they are), but I get to go into the xray room and help hold my dog, relax them and make it a pleasant and less risky procedure.
Even without anesthesia, you can clearly see the depth of the acetabulum, shape of the femoral head, etc... the only thing that cannot be evaluated as clearly is laxity...

In Germany you have to anesthestize the dog until full muscle relaxation because you can´t judge the Norberg degree properly in a fully awake dog. Especially in cases of severe HD that are painfull in full stretching. Spain as a member of the FCI should follow the same rule. And the German officials don´t judge pictures that are not properly positioned what is very difficult in a young lively dog. It is not unusual that the vet has to make more than one x-ray to get one good enough for official judgement.
Metedomidin is often used in combination with a little Ketamine and/or if necessary Propofol, because Metedomidin can be antagonized. As you need a Premedication for intubation that is already deep enough to do the x-rays that don´t take long Isofloran is not always used.

Ina

saschia · 05-10-2010, 16:47

Hi all, both my girls were fast to go into anesthesia and slow to wake up, I always thought it is the same for most wolfdogs. Looks like I was wrong ;o).

I am not a vet, but according to my experience anesthetizing rats with pentobarbital, the level of stress in the animal affects the dose needed for good anesthesia. With stressed out animals it is very hard to put them under...

yukidomari · 05-10-2010, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Is full anesthesia required for HD films in your country?
Here in the US, you can anesthetize or not... personally, I prefer not... yes, there are some who feel it gives a less accurate reading (makes the hips look tighter than they are), but I get to go into the xray room and help hold my dog, relax them and make it a pleasant and less risky procedure.
Even without anesthesia, you can clearly see the depth of the acetabulum, shape of the femoral head, etc... the only thing that cannot be evaluated as clearly is laxity...

I think it depends.. I'm almost 100% certain that PennHIP method requires anesthesia as the required scans ask the legs to be rotated to an uncomfortable position.

pedrocalle · 05-10-2010, 20:21

First, thanks to all of you for your answers. Tomorrow it is I go to the veterinarian to test. I do not know what type of medicament it uses. It seems to be that in order that not of mistake the dog has to be totally relaxed especially because for some to come to the clinic supposes very much stress. For telephonic conversation I believe that it is an anesthesia and not relaxing.

GalomyOak · 05-10-2010, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I think it depends.. I'm almost 100% certain that PennHIP method requires anesthesia as the required scans ask the legs to be rotated to an uncomfortable position.

PennHip = anesthesia mandatory, OFA = not mandatory (though usually used), part of the reason some people question it's reliability, since not all tests are performed with the same controls

pedrocalle · 07-10-2010, 06:59

Yesterday we went to the test and there has been luck, is "A", in hip and elbows. Primeramente injected a tranquilizer and later general anesthesia and him entubaron. What if it was late enough is to spend the effects of the anesthesia, when I went away to the bed had happened 2 hours since they woke him up and still seguia without being able to walk correctly and slept way.

02-10-2010, 21:35	#1
pedrocalle Lobos de la Fuensanta Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Madrid Posts: 61	It anesthetizes for HD I have to do the X-ray photographies for HD and believe that it is necessary to use anesthesia. Does someone know if there are problems with certain anesthesias? Is it possible to use anyone?

03-10-2010, 09:28	#3
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	From what I was told by my vet, some csv are a bit "slower" than other dogs. It takes them longer to fall asleep and later to wake. So there is no need to give bigger doses, but just wait longer for the effect. __________________

05-10-2010, 03:10	#9
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	I always tell my vet to use the same procedure they would for a greyhound/sighthound - another CSV breeder told me to do this early on, I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I think it makes my vet pay a little more attention for problems if nothing else. When I did PennHip (required anesthesia), the vet had a really hard time getting my female to go to sleep - both dogs tested had very quick recovery. She recently had a similar problem going to sleep when she had to have emergency surgery to put stitches in a wound. With greyhounds, they have some issues, I think because of little body fat (like many of our dogs, although probably not as much as a greyhound). There are certain types of medicine the vets will use, and others they will not for greyhounds...not sure of the names though. I have never had any serious problems. __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

05-10-2010, 16:47	#12
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Hi all, both my girls were fast to go into anesthesia and slow to wake up, I always thought it is the same for most wolfdogs. Looks like I was wrong ;o). I am not a vet, but according to my experience anesthetizing rats with pentobarbital, the level of stress in the animal affects the dose needed for good anesthesia. With stressed out animals it is very hard to put them under... __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

03-10-2010, 09:03	#2
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	You can do a totally normal anaesthesia, there are no specialities in the breed. Ina

03-10-2010, 09:40	#4
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Our dogs needed quite high doses and woke up very soon but nothing really out of normal range. Ina

03-10-2010, 19:16	#7
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Sorry, but I didn´t understand your question. Normally you give the drugs depending on the bodyweight and what you need to do. For a x-ray you don´t need a very deep anaesthesia because you cause no pain and simply need the muscle relaxation. Ina

05-10-2010, 02:26	#8
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Is full anesthesia required for HD films in your country? Here in the US, you can anesthetize or not... personally, I prefer not... yes, there are some who feel it gives a less accurate reading (makes the hips look tighter than they are), but I get to go into the xray room and help hold my dog, relax them and make it a pleasant and less risky procedure. Even without anesthesia, you can clearly see the depth of the acetabulum, shape of the femoral head, etc... the only thing that cannot be evaluated as clearly is laxity...

05-10-2010, 05:12	#10
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	When I was a Vet Tech, we prefered to use Diprivan (Propofol) to induce anesthesia, and then immediately switch them to the inhaled Isoflourane. Diprivan is also used in human anesthesia - when I worked in the human Operating Room, we called it "milk of amnesia" as it looks just like milk. As an aside, that is the drug that Michael Jackson ODed on. Both were the safest drugs for the majority of critters. We used Ketamine in Cats for induction, but again, onto Isoflourane... Iso is very safe and metabolized very quickly, so as soon as they are off it, they come around in about 20 minutes, and very quickly regain normal consciousness. Depending on the procedure, though, a muscle relaxer and a narcotic are often administered (almost always the case in human anesthesia, but situation-dependent for critters). Proper anesthesia, in humans, is a combo of an "amnestic" (a drug that makes you unconscious and removes any memory of the event - like Diprivan), a "analgesic" - a pain reliever, like a narcotic, and a drug that relaxes EVERY uscle in your body - called a "paralytic" as it literally paralyses you) - to this day "Curare"- based paraytics are used (Curare is the "drug" that the poison frogs in the rain forest make that the native roll their dart tips in to paralyze prey). As a Tech, I mostly saw Diprivan and Isoflourane and for invasive procedures, a mild paralytic to reduce bleeding, inflammation and pain. Generally a narcotic injection followed the procedure, but not always. Nowadays, I INSIST my vet prescribe pain meds if the situation calls for it (like a spay). THey have been traditionally reticent to do so, resulting in severe discomfort for the poor critters...

05-10-2010, 20:21	#14
pedrocalle Lobos de la Fuensanta Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Madrid Posts: 61	First, thanks to all of you for your answers. Tomorrow it is I go to the veterinarian to test. I do not know what type of medicament it uses. It seems to be that in order that not of mistake the dog has to be totally relaxed especially because for some to come to the clinic supposes very much stress. For telephonic conversation I believe that it is an anesthesia and not relaxing.

07-10-2010, 06:59	#16
pedrocalle Lobos de la Fuensanta Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Madrid Posts: 61	Yesterday we went to the test and there has been luck, is "A", in hip and elbows. Primeramente injected a tranquilizer and later general anesthesia and him entubaron. What if it was late enough is to spend the effects of the anesthesia, when I went away to the bed had happened 2 hours since they woke him up and still seguia without being able to walk correctly and slept way.