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Old 05-06-2008, 14:01   #1
of_Mercedes_Dream
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Default From 01/01/2009 DNA profiles in Belgium

Hello,
From 01/01/2009 the DNA profile by code "ISAG 2006" must be know by St Hubertus FCI Belgium. From each litter, one puppy will be tested on the DNA profile. If negatif result, none of all puppies will have pedigree FCI.

Every studdog from other country must also have an official DNA profile with same code "isag 2006".

This can give problems for the breed in Belgium because we still need "new" bloodlines and we don't know if in other (and origine) countries studdogs are available with this DNA profile.

Please tell more about the situation in each country of yours.
And is it possible to add the DNA profile into the database of "wolfdog.org"?

Patrick
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:25   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by of_Mercedes_Dream View Post
Hello,
From 01/01/2009 the DNA profile by code "ISAG 2006" must be know by St Hubertus FCI Belgium. From each litter, one puppy will be tested on the DNA profile. If negatif result, none of all puppies will have pedigree FCI.

Every studdog from other country must also have an official DNA profile with same code "isag 2006".

This can give problems for the breed in Belgium because we still need "new" bloodlines and we don't know if in other (and origine) countries studdogs are available with this DNA profile.

Please tell more about the situation in each country of yours.
And is it possible to add the DNA profile into the database of "wolfdog.org"

Patrick
Hello

Sorry fore the late answer

In Sweden from 01-01-2008 DNA tests are required to get your CsW pedigrees.
This is done one every litter to make sure no wolf blood is added.
Both parents and atleast one puppy has to be tested.

But I do not know if the puppys will bee "Isag 2006" ???

My CsW Hronec´s parents was tested in Finland to, but he has no "Isag 2006"

Best regards / M
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:02   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by of_Mercedes_Dream View Post
This can give problems for the breed in Belgium because we still need "new" bloodlines and we don't know if in other (and origine) countries studdogs are available with this DNA profile.

Please tell more about the situation in each country of yours.

Patrick
In Holland the Raad van Beheer has reacted to the changes in Germany, more information , in dutch however:http://www.raadvanbeheer.nl/nieuws/n...sh/7e67dceee8/
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Fokkers die met het oog op deze nieuwe ontwikkelingen het DNA-profiel van hun fokdieren willen laten vastleggen, kunnen dit via de Raad van Beheer aanvragen. De typering van het DNA-profiel vindt plaats bij het dr. Van Haeringen Laboratorium. Dit gebeurt conform de richtlijnen van de International Society for Animal Genetics (ISAG). Dekreu eigenaren kunnen eenvoudig aansluiten bij de nieuwe regels voor de Belgische rashondenfokkers.
as far as i recall, Germany has something similair to offer with Laboklin, that is for the SWH in any case..
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:24   #4
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But the Dutch system of de Raad van Beheer is for me "a bit strange".... as long as it is not obligated to have DNA result of both parents and at least one puppy!

The RVBH checks first all the paper info (is it the correct owner aso), and then the owners has to do the test by them selve....
The owner has to collect DNA matarial of his dog with 2 swabs, and send it to the institute.

In my opinion it would be better to collect EDTA blood by a vet who can first check the chip of the dog
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:40   #5
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Originally Posted by mijke View Post
But the Dutch system of de Raad van Beheer is for me "a bit strange".... as long as it is not obligated to have DNA result of both parents and at least one puppy!

The RVBH checks first all the paper info (is it the correct owner aso), and then the owners has to do the test by them selve....
The owner has to collect DNA matarial of his dog with 2 swabs, and send it to the institute.

In my opinion it would be better to collect EDTA blood by a vet who can first check the chip of the dog
that was the first thought that came to me as well... as far as i recall is that breed clubs can make it obligatory to have litters tested in Holland, or that is something that they are discussing.
With the swaps, that sure leaves room for cheating...but only if you wanna use your bitch or dog once, and at the staring stages, crossreferencing will make it harder to cheat in time... it is a small step, a tiny one ...
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Old 11-10-2008, 17:40   #6
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Nice trying, but I think it won't work as won't give any garanties for who buy or breed CzW.
You only need material of 1 puppy per litter, material take by owner at home... Who want's make mix will do it and register as CzW without any dificulties, and worst, will sold the puppies as "pure czW DNA tested" when it's not.
Is pretty easy the "breeder" add puppies from a CzW mix in a little litter of pure CzW , send pure CzW puppy blood and register hole litter with the mixes togheter as pure. Even if vet comes for take the blood continues easy to cheat.
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Last edited by Nebulosa; 11-10-2008 at 17:46.
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Old 11-10-2008, 20:13   #7
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Irresponsible and money breeders will always find out a way to cheat!

But it would become more difficult for them when:
  • EDTA blood of both parents is taken by a independent vet who did check the chip with transponder
  • The kennel organisation would give in every area a special vet a license to do this (so a breeder can’t go to his own vet or friend )
  • When the puppy’s are born, the official chipper of the kennel organisation, would not only chip but also take EDTA blood or DNA material with swabs of every puppy of the litter

Then there can always be checked if the puppies are real puppies of the parents the breeder did write on the papers
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Old 11-10-2008, 21:43   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijke View Post
Irresponsible and money breeders will always find out a way to cheat!

But it would become more difficult for them when:
  • EDTA blood of both parents is taken by a independent vet who did check the chip with transponder
  • The kennel organisation would give in every area a special vet a license to do this (so a breeder can’t go to his own vet or friend )
  • When the puppy’s are born, the official chipper of the kennel organisation, would not only chip but also take EDTA blood or DNA material with swabs of every puppy of the litter
Then there can always be checked if the puppies are real puppies of the parents the breeder did write on the papers
I think if it is done like this the unserius breeder will get problems to register a Hybrid as a CsV...

This is something fore all CsV clubs to follow I think, It is in the best interest of the breed.

I hope that DEFRA will do this tests in the UK if they alows breeding of CsV in the future...

Regads / Mikael
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Old 13-10-2008, 20:01   #9
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I think what Patrick is trying to say/ask is what follows:
If a belgian breeder wants to use a studdog that doesn't live in belgium, he also needs the DNA-code of that dog. So the foreign studdog will have to be tested and he has to have an ISAG 2006 code, otherwise we (belgian breeders) can't 'use' the dog. So it's kind of a problem that Belgium is one of the first countries who officialy require this
Will the owners of the studdogs in other countries will be so kind to have their dogs tested by a veterinary/lab qualified to do so according to the rules of our system?
If not, we can't use 'foreign' males anymore
I think it costs about 50 Euro and the dog has to be tested before the mating took place...

Liesbeth
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Old 13-10-2008, 20:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesbeth View Post
I think what Patrick is trying to say/ask is what follows:
If a belgian breeder wants to use a studdog that doesn't live in belgium, he also needs the DNA-code of that dog. So the foreign studdog will have to be tested and he has to have an ISAG 2006 code, otherwise we (belgian breeders) can't 'use' the dog. So it's kind of a problem that Belgium is one of the first countries who officialy require this
Will the owners of the studdogs in other countries will be so kind to have their dogs tested by a veterinary/lab qualified to do so according to the rules of our system?
If not, we can't use 'foreign' males anymore
I think it costs about 50 Euro and the dog has to be tested before the mating took place...

Liesbeth
I hope they will do that sens the same gose fore Sweden...

But I do not think it is a hard thing to do and the cost is not so high eather.

And the new puppy owners will know 100% that it is a CsV and ho the parents are by 100% to.

Regards / Mikael
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