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Health and nutrition How to feed a Wolfdog, information about dog food, how to vaccinate and what to do if the dog gets ill.... |
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13-09-2008, 23:44 | #1 |
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Dwarfism test for CSW?
As some of you may already know the university in Utrecht (NL) has developed a test, which can determine the mutation of the gene that is responsible for dwarfism (achondroplasia).
Dwarfism is a nasty disorder which you don’t wish upon any breeder or dog. A dwarf has a badly developed hypophysis, which means that certain hormones (such as growth hormones) are not produced. Due to the shortage of the production of the thyroid stimulating hormone, they have a slow functioning thyroid. Besides the fact that these dogs stay small, they are also haunted by various nasty side effects (e.g. baldness, itching, inflammations, malfunctioning of the liver and kidneys, slow behaviour) when they are not treated with medicines on a daily basis. One case of dwarfism is known to me within the CSW breed. Because this kind of gene mutations never come incidentally, there must have been born more dwarf CSW. (If one dwarf dog is born, then it means that approximately 18% of the dogs is carrying the gene.) But not always dwarfs are recognised in a litter… Dead born pups and pups behind in growth are often not recognised as dwarfs. Moreover, 90% of the living born dwarfs dies in the first week. With the Saarloos wolfdog it has already become clear that this disorder appears much more than ever thought. Based on the genetic basis of CSW, it is feared that it could be the same in the CSW breed. But with the development of the dwarfism test it has become possible to prevent further dwarfs being born within certain breeds! I’ve heard from the researchers at the Utrecht university (who are working on this subject since years), that the mutation that leads to dwarfism in the Saarlooswolfdog breed is identical to the one of the German shepherd. So the gen test is exactly the same for the German shepherd as well as the Saarlooswolfdog. Based on the fact that the CSW also has the German shepherd as an ancestor, it is certainly feasible that the genetic background of dwarfism in the CSW breed is exactly the same as with the Saarloos wolfdog. In this case the same dwarfism test can be used for the CSW breed as well! But…. To see if the genetic mutation of the CSW has the same background, it must be determined that at least one dog is carrying this mutation. Therefore Blood is needed from at least one dog which is suffering from dwarfism, or which is certainly carrying the mutated gene by being the parent of a dwarf dog. Thus: I am doing an urgent appeal for the health of the breed to all readers of this forum to contact me by personal message or by e-mail ([email protected]) in case you know somebody who has a CSW with dwarfism or a parent of one. I do not care about the names of the dogs! My only hope is to find owners who are willing to cooperate, to determine if the new dwarfism test is also valid for CSW I can give those owners more information after they have contact me. With this request I do not intent to start up suggestions or speculations about the possibility that a breeder may has had a dwarf in his or her litter! The only request I have is to connect me with owners of a dwarf TW or owners who have a parent of dwarf CSW. If we find owners who are willing to cooperate and the results of the tests are known, I will of course inform everyone here at the forum. In advance I would like to thank you for your cooperation! Best regards, Mijke
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Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! |
14-09-2008, 00:07 | #2 |
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Very nice!!! I hope you find someone that will help you!
Marcy |
25-09-2008, 14:48 | #3 |
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I have found this link.
http://www.accdata.co.uk/dwarfism/index.html and then to the field the history of dwarfism. Only CONSEAL and DENIAL by the breeders off the GS . Hope the CSW world is very diffrent , and the test is very soon availble . Groette Martine.
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25-09-2008, 20:30 | #4 |
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Hello Mijke,
I have seen this picture on saarlos page, it is very interest for me. Please can you write me (maybe privat message) in what litter you have seen this csw? Maybe we can look for in "blood" of this puppy. Have you got any fotos? I have seen a some similar case, but on foto of saarlos it looks very diferent.....more worse....thanks Hanka |
25-09-2008, 20:32 | #5 |
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And second question: is it possible- this puppy was from some "pure breed" breeding of csw in west Evropa? Everybody know, there is possible everything. Can there be any saarlos in population of csw?
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25-09-2008, 21:09 | #6 | |
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Quote:
Does not help to cure this disease, only serieus help for the test does that. So in the furture, when you think there is any suspicious in the line's you want to use you can ask for test results . And that is the only way to take this disease out of the whole breed of CSW. Because the history off CSW is the same, in the rest off Europe as it is for CZ . History is something that can not be changed . Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
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25-09-2008, 21:22 | #7 |
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Yes, but first we can try to find if some family or line has this problem. My personal meaning in this moment is: it can be from some saarlos what was used in csw breeding. But we can´t know it 100%...We can only think about it.
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25-09-2008, 21:45 | #8 |
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And we can also think .
That it come's from the GS in the beginning ??? As the link says it is from the earlier 50s that it came out in the open, and when is the beginning of the breed CSW started?? Does it matter ? ?? It is here and it does not dissapear by pointing a finger to somebody or specific bloodline's. Or do you think the Breed of CSW is big enough to put out specific bloodline's of breeding?? By using the test with goodtestresult you still can use all bloodline's . Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
25-09-2008, 22:02 | #9 |
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Yes, it can be from GS, of course. But I think no, because here we don´t know some case of it. And in czech are only pure breed csw. If was some case by saarols breed, My personal meaning is- it can be in some "not so much clean" breeding.
So I think, will not be situation when we will must give some line out from breeding.... But-I told, in this moment we can only think about it. We (me) don´t know where Mijke have seen it. |
25-09-2008, 22:52 | #10 |
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And if Mijke was not honest about it you would not know anything about it .
So who says there is only honest breeders off CSW ??? In whole EUROPA ?? Who says because you did not hear about in CZ that it is not there also ??? It also comes forward in very diffrent breeds. Not only Saarloos and GS. Also in mouse. It even comes forward in to people. So why not the CSW ?? Because we never heard about it ?? It can be only be a dead born pup who has it. Or a pup who lived not long enough to see the diffrent with the other pups (2 or 3 weeks). It is exceptional that the pup lived long enough to see that it is a dwarf. But if everybody stays in denial there never comes a test. Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
26-09-2008, 03:06 | #11 | ||
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Work with breeders is pretty difficult, probably more cases of hipophysary dwarfism happen in other GSD breeding but the breeder told nobody about it for avoid gossips and rumors about his breeding. CzW have a high amount of GSD, why the breed would be immune to the GSD problems? of course without the same intensity because the different morphologic selection made in CzW, but every genetic problem wich appear in GSD must call our attention too, principally when it envolve working lines. Hearth diseases, Cryptorchidism, Hip Displasy, Elbows Displasy, Demodex cannis, malignal brian cancer in young, in a breed with such poor genetic pool like CzW, any cases of illness must call our attention even if it was only one, the breed not need to be mixed for show problems that before not appear, with such genetic pool, is only a time question for more and more hiden illness appear in pure breed dogs, that not mean that mixes will be more healty than pure dogs. Quote:
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26-09-2008, 06:36 | #12 | ||||||||||
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26-09-2008, 11:14 | #13 |
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did you guys know that the NVSWH, the original breedclub in the netherlands does the same as some do here?
point fingers to TWD, say possible dwarfism only appaers in the SWDlines outside their protected breeding program and derives not from GS but from TWD Malamute in saarloos population? nice rumours.. why mention this in this diskussion, when it is , thanks to gen research, more than obvious that the gen responsible for dwarfism in SWD is the similair one as in GS, not as in malamute |
26-09-2008, 12:01 | #14 |
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Sorry. My writting about malamute was only "case", not really meaning. But as I know, was much discussions about "brown colour" in thear population. Some people told, there was some siberian husky. Mrs.Saarlos told NO. But from what is brown colour in this breed?
It must be some similar breed. |
26-09-2008, 12:25 | #15 | |
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Quote:
off topic, but did you know that in some rare cases, the brown, with liver nose, also is present in gs Perhaps not the best of pictures, but a very plausible explanation for brown in SWD. |
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26-09-2008, 13:40 | #16 | |
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Quote:
Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
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26-09-2008, 14:06 | #17 |
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Maybe I´m wrong but for one (?) SWD dwarf and maybe one CSW dwarf it´s a great effort to test the whole breeds
Dysplasia or epilepsy appear much more important to me. |
26-09-2008, 16:39 | #18 | |
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Quote:
Dysplasia is pretty difficult to make control using genetic tests because none know really all gens wich cause the problem, it's still in studie and be poligenic turn things more difficult, if I not deceif me with Epilepsy isn't different problem.
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26-09-2008, 18:13 | #19 | ||
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Quote:
In SWD it is sadly more than just one dwarf, but like mentioned in the test, stillborn puppies , fading puppies, that might all have been dwarfs as well.. I#d rather know than take the guess.. To give some figures, last figures i got after the test was available: 36 SWD tested, 28 free, 7 carriers and 1 dwarf (offcourse a couple more dwarfs are known from the past, these are just the facts with DNA testing done) as of hd: Quote:
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26-09-2008, 18:59 | #20 | |||
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Quote:
And of course mixes will never be more healthy!! (and they also can spread (not always direct visible) the health problems of 2 breeds!) In GSD breed breeders were also denying health problems for years….. Even when people did know there were dwarfs born, a lot of breeders were only blaming the breeders who did have a dwarf in their litter… But thanks to a few honest breeders who did a lot of work without blaming others or mention names (for example they did collect for years blood examples of carriers of the mutated gen for investigation on university) now there is a test for this mutated gen for GSD and Saarloos. But even when there is only one dwarf in CsW, it needs our attention! For me it is not interesting on this moment who was the breeder or the line of this dog! My only point is: to find owners of dogs who are proven carriers of the mutated gen for dwarfism in CsW breed to valid the test! And only to find out if the test is also usable for CsW breed. Quote:
In Holland it is also not obligated for saarloos breeders to do the test. But I am glad for the future of the breed that a more owners and breeders are testing now before breeding. And as you can read (on the English site link) the official breed club NVSW is still denying and telling this gen is not in their lines… But of course they do not want to do tests to prove it. Quote:
As I said before it is on this moment NOT interesting or useful to talk about lines, before we know if the test is valid for CsW. I did have a lot of contact with the genetic specialists and I can tell you that they believe that the mutated gen comes from GSD. I did discuss with them these kind of opinions, but they are not convinced at all that it is coming from saarloos incross. But believe me, when there is more info I’ll inform you !
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Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! |
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