British Kennel Club Recognition - Page 17

hedeon · 29-09-2011, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaidd

and encourageing an inner circle this is terrible, i was asked to read through this by other members but I am shocked to see such behaviour and from a moderator too.. this is not the way to get support from pure breed owners, you are not showing your intentions very well at all

i am shocked

What intentions? What I said is I would like to join group on Facebook, then it was suggested to create another group, and I said I think this is good idea. If I don't want to discuss all matters openly it is because I would't trust everyone who will join us on Facebook. I think not everyone will be happy if such club will get created, and start to run properly. What intentions do you think I do have?

yukidomari · 29-09-2011, 21:01

Sorry but I'm not understanding the hysteria.

All breed clubs have appointees and what not..

and, I wouldn't take so much offense if I was new to a group and wasn't automatically included in such.. you might find with time, when people get to know you better, that you very well could be. Just sayin'..

Nebulosa · 29-09-2011, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaidd

does that not defeat the object for UK owners and breeders? only 1 group is required. already you are choosing who you want in your click? would it not be better to be open and upfront if you want a recognised breed in the UK and everyone working together in my opinion.

Why would it defeat? what defeat the objective of select a breed properly is mixing people who want make the things seriously with people who never have done something right before and yet consider themselves specialists because "they have thousands years of experience".
Considering that CzW is not an new breed in UK, but an breed which already has been bred there and was KILLED by its own breeders - which were supose to protect and select the breed - and that's why we have this topic right now.
To make an open group which allows everyone to get in would be like an early death.

Sorry, but I would never send a dog to someone who are in the same group of Pacino, for exemple.

If they want to start again, they will NEED to be VERY selective of who will make part as breeder in their group, mainly in an country with burned reputation worldwide like in UK.

Contrary you will never be able to revive the breed there, as maximaly you will get will be low quality dogs which none wants in their country.

Tassle · 29-09-2011, 21:10

Any Club has a committee??

It is set up by electing a chairperson, etc .....

What's the problem with everyone joining, maybe everyone who is interested doing a Bio and what they hope to sort for the club, then everyone electing? Or putting forwards names?

yukidomari · 29-09-2011, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassle

Any Club has a committee??

It is set up by electing a chairperson, etc .....

What's the problem with everyone joining, maybe everyone who is interested doing a Bio and what they hope to sort for the club, then everyone electing? Or putting forwards names?

Well, I understand what you mean but the problem with letting 'everyone' elect is that obviously as the situation is in the UK it seems that a large portion of people would vote contrary to the well-being of the breed?

That's why in clubs, there are rules as to who holds voting status usually. ..everyone is free to join, but not everyone is free to vote.

Tassle · 29-09-2011, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Well, I understand what you mean but the problem with letting 'everyone' elect is that obviously as the situation is in the UK it seems that a large portion of people would vote contrary to the well-being of the breed?

That's why in clubs, there are rules as to who holds voting status usually. ..everyone is free to join, but not everyone is free to vote.

I can see where you are coming from, but I also think somehow this has to be done fairly to stop as much bad feeling as possible.
There is so much bad feeling about, that any exclusion at the moment is going to seem like there is a hidden agenda.

Possibly a temporary committee, until peoples loyalty and commitment can be assessed?

Murph · 29-09-2011, 21:36

"that a large portion of people would vote contrary to the well-being of the breed?"

!!!!???why???!!!!

yukidomari · 29-09-2011, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murph

"that a large portion of people would vote contrary to the well-being of the breed?"

!!!!???why???!!!!

Does this really need to be elaborated on?

Look at the breed at the moment in the UK. The breeders who are existing now have had every opportunity to do things differently, yet don't. There isn't anything stopping them. But somehow they should be involved in a club with voting rights?

Voting rights in many clubs are contingent upon people being in good standing with existing KC rules..

Nebulosa · 29-09-2011, 21:39

Another important thing, I told 2 different groups, one closed to selected UK breeders which will REALLY breed pure Czechoslovakian wolfdogs or help the breed in serious way, and one to people worldwide helps, like other breeders, do you all wonder why?
Then, read this topic to have an idea of what people from other countries had already passed with some "breeders" who pops trying to sell dogs in an easy way for any owner who whish it and is willing to pay the price required.

It's not only for importing pups, but with an closed group you will be able to talk openly about "why not use stud X or Y" in your breeding at that moment, without the owner or the breeder of the said stud pops at your forum in an hysterical attack telling that his stud is perfect because he won several shows and have no health problems.

Unfortunatelly, not all people are mature enough to openly accept that some times their studs or pups are not interesting to one country specifically.

happyfeet · 29-09-2011, 21:46

and some would just like their pets to be recognised and not be breeding machines?

all this ranting must look awful to newbies, mini reminder that this is an open forum and that you are being viewed by many people i.e. guests and this threads not promoting recognition in the UK very well at all

yukidomari · 29-09-2011, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

and some would just like their pets to be recognised and not be breeding machines?

And a nice goal.

But how is that contrary to what I'm saying? All I'm saying is there has got to be some rules in place. Is that unreasonable?

Tassle · 29-09-2011, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

And a nice goal.

But how is that contrary to what I'm saying? All I'm saying is there has got to be some rules in place. Is that unreasonable?

Certainly not, and possibly the direction I am coming from is similar to you.

My fear would be that if certain people were not allowed in, objections could be made at a later date which would prevent things from moving forwards, *if* a fair way could be found, then said people would not have objections at a later date.

Nebulosa · 29-09-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

and some would just like their pets to be recognised and not be breeding machines?

all this ranting must look awful to newbies, mini reminder that this is an open forum and that you are being viewed by many people i.e. guests and this threads not promoting recognition in the UK very well at all

What difference makes to have an paper telling your dog if of breed to an owner who does have his dog as Pet and nor even think about the possibility of make a litter?

Yes, I hope everyone from UK who loves CzW, who breed mixes or who wants to breed pure dogs read this topic, and realise that THANKS the people who start with the breed in your country we have such situation.
That thanks to them people who want to make a serious work will have to fight for gain the trust of the breeders again and that trust is a very fragile thing which can be broken at any small mistake.
Suppose european breeders start to trust you now and accept to send some dogs to your country, then years after it this same breeder discouver that their pups, sended to UK for breed pure dogs, has been used to make mixes and help unscrupulous people to gain money with pointless breeding?

Sorry, but for me as breeder it would be like an forever place for UK in my blacklist, and I can be sure that yout country will not be only at my list.

happyfeet · 29-09-2011, 21:58

as a newbie here, in my opinion {which perhaps doesnt really count in the whole scheme of things} and as an owner of a registered dog as a family pet , I am not convinced by the other members of the inner circle to their true intentions. Who decides who to include or not to include its seems very underhanded . Reading it from the start its enough to put anyone off.

I agree it has to start somewhere but surely the 'inner circle' needs to show to others they are true and fair and equal? This is not whats being reflected!

yukidomari · 29-09-2011, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

I agree it has to start somewhere but surely the 'inner circle' needs to show to others they are true and fair and equal? This is not whats being reflected!

I agree with you!

Nebulosa · 29-09-2011, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFeet

I agree it has to start somewhere but surely the 'inner circle' needs to show to others they are true and fair and equal? This is not whats being reflected!

Surely the "inner circle" will have to show not only for UK people how serious they are, but also convince the breeders about it.

As we can have an "inner circle" with new people interested in work, we can have an "inner circle" with people who only wants new blood for their mixes.

happyfeet · 29-09-2011, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I agree with you!

theres a first time for everything! my hearts in the right place but I find this 'inner circle' thingy a little un easy

Tassle · 29-09-2011, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

theres a first time for everything! my hearts in the right place but I find this 'inner circle' thingy a little un easy

Maybe use the word committee then, as with every breed club, a chairperson, secretary etc - tis exactly the same thing isn't it?

Tassle · 29-09-2011, 22:26

Just a quick search on the Web came up with this, but this does not seem to be in relation to setting up a breed club, just standard rules that have to be adhered to *if* the KC get involved.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/480

Possibly Hedeon could email his contact and ask what rules have to be adhered to if setting up a breed club?

....That is if you want to go down the KC route?

tupacs2legs · 29-09-2011, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassle

Maybe use the word committee then, as with every breed club, a chairperson, secretary etc - tis exactly the same thing isn't it?

this is my confusion as to why there is a problem

29-09-2011, 21:39	#329
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Another important thing, I told 2 different groups, one closed to selected UK breeders which will REALLY breed pure Czechoslovakian wolfdogs or help the breed in serious way, and one to people worldwide helps, like other breeders, do you all wonder why? Then, read this topic to have an idea of what people from other countries had already passed with some "breeders" who pops trying to sell dogs in an easy way for any owner who whish it and is willing to pay the price required. It's not only for importing pups, but with an closed group you will be able to talk openly about "why not use stud X or Y" in your breeding at that moment, without the owner or the breeder of the said stud pops at your forum in an hysterical attack telling that his stud is perfect because he won several shows and have no health problems. Unfortunatelly, not all people are mature enough to openly accept that some times their studs or pups are not interesting to one country specifically. __________________

29-09-2011, 21:01	#322
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Sorry but I'm not understanding the hysteria. All breed clubs have appointees and what not.. and, I wouldn't take so much offense if I was new to a group and wasn't automatically included in such.. you might find with time, when people get to know you better, that you very well could be. Just sayin'..

29-09-2011, 21:10	#324
Tassle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall Posts: 137	Any Club has a committee?? It is set up by electing a chairperson, etc ..... What's the problem with everyone joining, maybe everyone who is interested doing a Bio and what they hope to sort for the club, then everyone electing? Or putting forwards names?

29-09-2011, 21:36	#327
Murph Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 54	"that a large portion of people would vote contrary to the well-being of the breed?" !!!!???why???!!!!

29-09-2011, 21:46	#330
happyfeet Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: on a farm Posts: 78	and some would just like their pets to be recognised and not be breeding machines? all this ranting must look awful to newbies, mini reminder that this is an open forum and that you are being viewed by many people i.e. guests and this threads not promoting recognition in the UK very well at all

29-09-2011, 21:58	#334
happyfeet Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: on a farm Posts: 78	as a newbie here, in my opinion {which perhaps doesnt really count in the whole scheme of things} and as an owner of a registered dog as a family pet , I am not convinced by the other members of the inner circle to their true intentions. Who decides who to include or not to include its seems very underhanded . Reading it from the start its enough to put anyone off. I agree it has to start somewhere but surely the 'inner circle' needs to show to others they are true and fair and equal? This is not whats being reflected!

29-09-2011, 22:26	#339
Tassle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall Posts: 137	Just a quick search on the Web came up with this, but this does not seem to be in relation to setting up a breed club, just standard rules that have to be adhered to if the KC get involved. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/480 Possibly Hedeon could email his contact and ask what rules have to be adhered to if setting up a breed club? ....That is if you want to go down the KC route?