poll , who wants to have a DM/DM dog?

[jmvdwiel]

NO way I want to have a DM/DM dog when i buy a puppy.

[saschia]

Why should anybody want to buy a DM/DM dog?

[jmvdwiel]

that's a good question, but some people think it is strange that in Holland DM/DM dogs born after the validation of the test cannot be used for breeding anymore.
But there shouldn't be DM/DM dogs born anymore, and we had the clause that DM/DM dogs that were born before the validation could be used mated with a Free dog.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

that's a good question, but some people think it is strange that in Holland DM/DM dogs born after the validation of the test cannot be used for breeding anymore.
But there shouldn't be DM/DM dogs born anymore, and we had the clause that DM/DM dogs that were born before the validation could be used mated with a Free dog.

total not strange. I speak - NOW not mas born, but this who are live and have about 4-8 years can go to breeding. this is diferent. I not want too puppys DM/DM like and you, but not think is good from breeding put out dogs who have a breedings rights and have this problem.

[saschia]

The solution is easy - you don't want DM/DM dog, get a puppy from tested parents. But once you have (for whatever reason) DM/DM dog, why should you not be able to breed it, if it makes sense? That means if it is great exterior, great character dog with not common lineage, it is pity to say No breeding, no exceptions... like Daiva said - it was born already. Especially in countries where the number of animals is low - if you stop breeding from such animals altogether, you risk extreme inbreeding, or you have to import extensively.

Well, it is the thing of your club to decide on breeding conditions, but breeding with DM/DM dogs (with N/N partner) does not equal producing DM/DM offspring and it absolutely does not equal wanting a DM/DM dog. That's all. The breeder also has to calculate if he will be able to sell pups which all will be carries.

[yukidomari]

maybe something like 'no breeding on DM/DM dogs born after 2011 (or whenever testing became popularized and 'standard')?

but i agree that sometimes there are DM/DM dogs which can have great value to a breed. and their offspring don't need to suffer from the same potential fate as long as educated decisions are made. And I agree with Sasha completely!

[jefta]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

maybe something like 'no breeding on DM/DM dogs born after 2011 (or whenever testing became popularized and 'standard')?

but i agree that sometimes there are DM/DM dogs which can have great value to a breed. and their offspring don't need to suffer from the same potential fate as long as educated decisions are made. And I agree with Sasha completely!

For example somebody import very good dog born in 2012 from country where test are not popular and register him w NL. Dog have great working abilities, good look, comes from interesting and healthy line (good HD, long life itd) just he is dm/dm. And he must be lost for a breed only because his puppies with n/n bitch will be carriers?!

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by jefta

For example somebody import very good dog born in 2012 from country where test are not popular and register him w NL. Dog have great working abilities, good look, comes from interesting and healthy line (good HD, long life itd) just he is dm/dm. And he must be lost for a breed only because his puppies with n/n bitch will be carriers?!

I agree with you but I think the rules by NL at least from what I interpret from the original poster's comments is that the rule also seeks to sanction the owner for not demanding health testing on the parents. Not only whether the animal can be valuable or bred safely. Not that I agree or not with this.

[saschia]

well, that is good point Jing. I also think people should demant the parents be tested, or at least one parent be tested free, to prevent birth of affected puppies (that should also be tru for dwarf test maybe).

But that got me thinking about testing puppies before buying. Yes, if I want a puppy from certain litter for breeding purposes and have special pairs in mind then getting N/N puppy makes it safe to breed with anything. But if we all do it, then we may lose great animals (character, work, exterior) that will spend their lives maybe completely happy in someone's backyard, but not contributing to the genepool anymore. Wouldn't that be pity? Like with Frei - if dwarf test existed then and I knew she was carrier - would I get her? Maybe yes, cause at the moment I didn't care much if she'll be beautiful or not, just that she was from my Kei's line was important. But if I had been thinking about breeding and considered it important, then I would not have this great character girl who gives such great character pups... and Arek Zlata Palz would not have any descendants.

[yukidomari]

Of course there are a lot of aspects to consider. But think about it maybe like if all people were to demand testing, whatever the results are, the person is at least making an informed choice and accepts the 'risk' of a carrier (either DM or others) or affected dog.

Also I know many people plan or dream about future pairings, I'm not a breeder but I think that if more people tested, there would be more dogs to use in 'safe' combinations that are also interesting. The problem now that you can see with DW for example is that only very few people have tested. And for those people who know their dog is a carrier either by past litters or by the test, often have to restrict themselves as to what partners they choose for their dogs..

[saschia]

Exactly... well, demanding tested parents is a solution to that too, not making witch hunts for carriers, but making sure we know what we are breeding on...