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Old 09-12-2013, 19:19   #1
fernando
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Default Unmasked Y Crying Wolf litter

First of all, I want to say that the English language is not my mother tongue. When we wrote this text i have tried to be correct as posible but sure it has errors. I'm sorry in advance.


This document is a summary of the work, study and analysis that we have implemented about the accusations around Crying Wolf Y litter, focusing in Yvain Crying Wolf.


Center judge Stefan Stefik, right Yvain Crying Wolf

On 15 November 2013, we sent to the Slovakian club the last evidences about the paternity between Issar Kollárov Dvor and Yvain Crying Wolf, however they are needing more time than we expected to make a decision taking possession an evidences are very clear. We believe this is the moment to publish it. To understand them better, we will explain how, where and why began this history.

We will make a timeline about what happened, in order, to provide a comprehensive, orderly and simple vision.

30-05-2011, 14:26 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18510 - #1
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18520 - #1

Informs the birth in France of forest brown colour puppies with liver coloured nose (commonly misname red colour) in a litter between CSVs, Thalia Crying Wolf and Sibir Crying Wolf.
This colour does not occur in our breed.
For a dog show this colour should have two copies in the locus-b with value b (b/b), because is a recessive gene for a dominant gene (B) which is the only one in the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. Therefore, for the forest brown with liver nose is visible, both parents must contribute (b) to their offspring.

According Admin on the next pic show Sibir Crying Wolf and one of his red children. (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...rak#post406734 - #34)


In back side Sibir. In front side his red son.

31-05-2011, 16:35 - Source Wolfdog forum
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18520 - #9

Wolfdog Admin inform that the DNA test confirm the puppies paternity with both parents, Thalia Crying Wolf and Sibir Crying Wolf. However, these test are not included in the dogs database in Wolfdog.org. As both parents are from the same kennel, the suspicions are aimed at Crying Wolf.

07-06-2011, 04:16 - Source Wolfdog.org forum
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...t=18510&page=5 - #85

They performed a temporal association between the presence in the kennel of a brown colour and liver nose Saarloos and the T and S litters. These Saarloos is Dvorak Dylang de Louba Tar, born 5/10/2003 and appear in the follow picture.


Dvorak Dylang de Louba Tar, left.

14-06-2011, 13:13 - Source Wolfdog.org forum
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...=thalia&page=7 - # 122

They listed the litters born during the period in which the Saarloos Wolfdog lived in Crying wolf and automatically were set as suspicious, just temporal coincidence. By now it was suspicious of S (16-12-2005), T (24-02-2006), V (09-11-2006) and Y (12-10-2007) Crying Wolf litters.

We are surprised about the selection, ignoring the U (28-10-2006), W (05/01/2007) and X (18-04-2007) Crying Wolf litters. However, this is not aim of this text.

From this moment we focus on the Y Crying Wolf litter.

Parents of Y Crying wolf litter are Issar Kollárov Dvor (born 15/12/2002 and died 17/01/2013) and Flash Crying Wolf (born 13-01-2002 and died 30-10-2010).


Issar Kollarov Dvor & Flash Crying Wolf

14-06-2011, 13:13 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...=thalia&page=7 - # 122

From this moment, several associations were presented against the Y Crying Wolf litter and their progeny, which we call surface:
  • Height of the Y litter members. Associated with Saarloos offspring’s.
  • Shy behaviours of Y litter offspring’s. Associated with Saarloos features.
  • The gaze of some dogs. Associated with Saarloos… We suppose.
17-06-2011, 17:43 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19170 - #1

It was reported that in the litter between Yanatos Yarl Crying Wolf (Y Crying Wolf member) and Asia -l'Amico del Lupo made in 2009, were born some atypical puppies. In the picture, of Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus, <08-11-2009 Wolfdog database - http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/12272> , show atypical features in the breed. Has no mask, colour and distribution, structure, ears, etc. are out of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog standard and exceed all atypical features that can be seen in the breed. According the post creator, he don’t know if is registered as CSV, and comment the resemblance between this dog with a White Swiss Shepherd, breed who also works the l'Ange Gardien de Faujus kennel. The breeder are invited to make the paternity test because there may be several fathers.


On top white swiss shepherd.
Down Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus.

20-06-2011, 13:02 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...=thalia&page=7 - #130

Issar Kollárov Dvor owner, alleged Y litter father, was living on the other side of the world and Issar was living in Crying Wolf kennel. The breeder refused to cooperate. The Issar owner confirmed that the cross between Issar and Flash was done in her house and in her presence. She also confirmed that received a request from the Slovakian club to cooperate in clarify the situation and she was willing to collaborate.

14-02-2012 15:26 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...highlight=elbe - #1
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...highlight=elbe - #1
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...highlight=elbe - #1

Paternity test that prove the paternity between Elbe, Yanatos and Asia is presented.

Again all the eyes focus on the Y Crying Wolf litter.

Again, we are surprised the analysis because there are no doubts about the mother.

21/02/2012 13:48 y 22/02/2012 04:07 - Source Wolfdog.org forum

The Y litter mother died 30/10/2010, then were asked the paternity test with the father, Issar Kollárov Dvor. This is the link http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21825, in posts #2 and #7.

13.4.2013 - Source CSV Slovakian club meeting report.

http://www.csv.sk/klub/zapisnice/441 - Point 4

Slovakian club inform that the Issar DNA profile is available to facilitate the paternity test.

Although we have no written reference, the Issar owner made the DNA profile on summer’12, during a trip to Europe.

16.6.2013 - Source CSV Slovakian club meeting report.

http://www.csv.sk/klub/zapisnice/710 - Point 9

Two months after, the Slovakian club publish in a meeting report the start to ask to FCI an investigation about Y Crying Wolf litter and request that are not use these dogs and their offspring without paternity test.

Summarizing the above, we have the following signs:

  • Coincidence in time between the presence of Saarloos Dvorak and the birth of the Y Crying Wolf litter.
  • The lack of collaboration from Crying Wolf kennel was understood as proof by many.
  • Y litter members very height.
  • Offspring shy behaviour.
  • Offspring “Shy” gaze.
  • Atypical members born between Yanatos Crying Wolf and Asia -l'Amico del Lupo with Elbe paternity test, the member who is clearly MIX.
We will analyze step by step these signs and the test performed in recent months:

Coincidence in time between the presence of Saarloos Dvorak and the birth of the Y Crying Wolf litter.
It’s true that exist coincidence. Dvorak, only one Saarloos in Crying Wolf kennel, was brown colour with liver coloured nose, therefore his genetic is locus_b=b/b. This has been confirmed by Slovgen laboratory and Saarloos Wolfdog Netherlands Club, also it’s present in many colour genetic literature. Therefore, Dvorak would to transmit necessarily a (b) allele to 100% of their offspring, and when crossed with a CSV, with locus-b=B/B all members should have locus-b=B/b. In the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog breed don’t exist the (b) allele, so its presence in the first generation (Y Crying Wolf litter) be a differential with other Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. This was the first test performed with Yvain, to confirm or discard the MIX. The result of this test is locus-b=B/B.

Therefore, for Yvain Crying Wolf the Dvorak paternity is discarded. Despite of the presence on the same time and same place, the paternity it’s not possible.
The lack of collaboration from Crying Wolf kennel was understood as proof by many.
Although we describe the Crying Wolf behaviour as negligent and unprofessional, this can’t be a proof beyond she don’t want to collaborate. This is not a proof of their dogs origin. Wolfdog.org is a private WWW platform that acts as such and therefore nobody is bound to provide information. The information must be voluntary. Also, we add that in this research process, we felt that existed interest in discard dogs more than to know the truth. There has never been a process to prove the truth and we had to create it ourselves. Theories has been generated continuously to keep the doubts, but no one has provided test or proofs to prove the truth. Administration Wolfdog.org marked dogs without evidences and without official resolution, however told us that need the Slovakian club resolution to remove the mark. It’s totally inconsistent and asymmetric, always with the excuse that it’s a private platform, without visible head manager and hiding behind the difficulty of start international court proceedings.

Y litter members height.

We have always been of this proof is absurd. These dogs don’t have Bonitation and those people that critics and associating this characteristic with the miscegenation had never seen him in person.
However it’s known that the height of children is not directly proportional to their parents in genetic. There are dogs that carry high and some do not. Only is necessary look at the human. Tall parents do not have to give tall descendant and small children are not always offspring of small parents. Sure many people who read this text are higher than their parents, and it’s not mean that they are not. This is not a rule, and therefore not a proof.
We ask ourselves, Is to establish a rule in which the offspring only can be +-2cm difference and if not will be MIX?

Offspring shy behaviour.

Another more ridiculous proof. Now all shy Czechoslovakian Wolfdog will is not a pure breed? We’ve all seen shy CSV, very shy and not doubt about its pure breed blood. And we’re not saying that to will put in doubt, just that is not a valid characteristic to confirm or deny de purity.
The behavioural is a high percentage shapeable
so to take it as proof to confirm or deny the purity of a dog just shows the lack of knowledge. This proof also is not useful.

Shy Gaze.

This indication is incoherent. Do we consider purebred dogs by de gaze of the dog? The gaze is shape, is a security symptom, communication, etc… Of course it can be admitted doubts about eye colour if is outside the standard, but the gaze? Really? It’s like we say… the dogs have a correct testicles, but the movement when is urinating is suspected. So… Is not purebred!!!. Please!!!! This is lack of knowledge, is incoherent, only demonstrate the desire to accuse dogs.

Atypical members born between Yanatos Crying Wolf and Asia -l'Amico del Lupo with Elbe paternity test, the member who is clearly MIX.



Always this proof has been the most difficult point. We are not here to defend the precedence of Yanatos Yarl Crying Wolf, but there are several important considerations that should take into account:

1. The dogs of same litter can be from different fathers. Yarl Yanatos may be have a father and Yvain other.

2. Yvain Crying Wolf has around 100 descendants, and all typical. Should be taken into account and never been done

3. About Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien doubts is very curious that only the look are directed to the father, not the mother. Again It’s curious choice of analysis without proofs.

However, the most important thing came when analyze Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female) Yanatos Yarl and Asia daughter. The paternity test that had been publish and assigned to this female really is from Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (typical male) from the same litter. Supposedly, they are brothers. During three years nobody even noticed? Nobody compared the sex and chip number of Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female) with the paternity test? We can’t assure that Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female) exist, but if we can prove that Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (typical male) was presented to several exhibitions with the correct chip and LOF of Wolfdog.org, and we present the results of some of these exhibitions, showing that Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus dog is not atypical.


Therefore, no one has tasted that Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female) is Yanatos yarl Crying Wolf daughter. What has been tasted is that Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (typical male) is a Yanatos Crying Wolf and Asia -l'Amico del Lupo son. Wolfdog.org assigned erroneously or selfishly this paternity test to other dog. This must be corrected immediately.



1- Wolfdog includes an atypical dog in Yanatos and Assia litter. The dog may or not may exist. May or not may to be descendant of father or mother in this litter. May or not may to be from the same kennel. May or not may the dog of picture. In dog database this dog not have owner assigned. The chip number only appear in wolfdog.
2- Strangely in the same litter there are two dogs with the same name and the second name of the atypical dog is “Yanatos”. Good strategy for the people to associate the name Yanatos and Y crying wolf litter to MIX.
3- Finally, in the post in which Elbe paternity test are presented, from the beginning the link is talking and link to Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (typical male) and not to Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female), however wolfdog.org associated paternity test to Elbe Yanatos de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (atypical female) rather than Elbe de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus (typical male), who really belong. With this, the doubts and suspicions about Y Crying Wolf litter is strengthening.

Therefore, after examining all proofs, we add the last proof. The paternity test between Issar Kollárov Dvor and Yvain Crying Wolf. The result is: DNA compatible.







A paternity test without one of parents (as in this case) only can “discard the paternity” or say “may be the father” (for this result, the profiles must be compatibles). This is because genetic rules, in which only can be speak of probability, although father and son match 100%. This has been confirmed by Laboklin laboratory that performed the paternity test.


About suspicions:
  • Point 1. We don’t know if it’s true. No DNA profiles in Wolfdog.org.
  • Point 2, 3, 4 y 5. Conjectures and inventions that success in order to keep the suspicions about the Y litter.
  • Point 6. (Although it’s not associated with Yvain). Only real and tangible proof, but wrong, that has been published for 3 years ago in wolfdog.org forum and in Slovakian club hands. It has been used consciously or unconsciously to strengthen the suspicions Y litter.

IS CLEARY PROVED THAT THE SUSPICION IS BASED IN SUPPOSITION AND INVENTIONS,AND HOW THE GENETIC TEST BYPASSING OR USED FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE.

The reader should be aware that this speculations start in a private platform and are official entities that should take actions of this issues based on real evidence and not on speculation and rumours that could be motivated by distant interest to the sake of the breed.

About Yvain Crying Wolf:



  • It has been show that Yvain Crying Wolf is not a mix WITH GENETIC TEST.
  • It has been show the compatibility between Yvain Crying Wolf and Issar Kollárov Dvor WITH GENETIC TEST.
As only one conclusion: Yvain Crying Wolf is Issar Kollárov Dvor son, purebred and he and his offspring’s are out of doubts. The suspicious, that had been unfounded from the start, based on rumours and speculations, now have been refused one after other.

All test and proofs are in Slovak club hands, and we hope that they conclusions are in line with ours. However, all this information will be expanded and sent to RSCE (Royal Canine Society of Spain), SKJ (Slovak cynological unit) and FCI (Federation Cynological International). This process is now open and started. To make a decision the FCI should have all information, and no one confirms the status of the process starting by the clubs, or if exist.

We hope that all people (individual, breeders, web platforms and statements) who have been stoned to Yvain Crying Wolf and his descendants based the premise of “doing good for the breed”, in this moment continue his crusade and make the same effort to clear the name of these dogs.

This document has been delivered, few days before being published, to our contacts in the CSV Czech and Slovakian Clubs.

Source: http://tenerunplc.blogspot.com/
© RuthNieto y FernandoLourido.
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Old 10-12-2013, 23:40   #2
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We want specify that WE ARE NOT agree with the allegations about the litters named in own text, we only link the source that accused without proof.
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Old 11-12-2013, 14:30   #3
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many thanks to publish this and make so much for your dog! I wish, also Mrs. Edith Molnár would do this also and not breed again before clear this situation. This prooves are only about Yvain. No other dogs, other dogs from this litter must be also compared. You did not prooved the otheers from Y CW or any other litters of CW. For me PERSONAL (not as club committee member) is this enough to know, that Yvain is the son of parents, that are in his pedigree.
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Old 11-12-2013, 14:38   #4
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Thank you very much Leila. Your opinion is very important for me.
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Old 11-12-2013, 18:19   #5
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Wolfdog.org rectified the paternity test error in the sheets of Elbe and Elbe Yanatos. The paternity Test is asigned to the correct chip. A good step, that we hope will be the first of several corrections. Thank you to they did.
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Old 24-12-2013, 17:59   #6
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je tu někdo, kdo by to schrnul do čj? nebo sr?
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