Crate training your CSV?

[yukidomari]

So to all the owners of CSVs, do you crate train?

Did you find that your dog was easy/difficult with crate training?

I'm asking because we will need to crate train ours, if not just for travel. All three of our current dogs are crate trained, of course in the beginning they did not like it and did carry on crying, screaming, barking, whining, etc.

But mostly within a week they were well acclimated to their crate and one of our dogs actually prefers her crate much of the day when nothing's going on.

How were your experiences with crate training your CSV? Do they generally take well to it, or not at all?

Do I have to prepare to write my neighbors a note of apology and bring them gifts?

[draggar]

Crate training - the easy way. Lead your dog to the crate and say "crate" (as the command) and toss a cookie in there.

Usually the dog will follow the cookie.

It worked wonders with Luna. She's very good with it now.

Pongo still needs bribery, though.

I've found out that at night a rawhide or a bone in there for them to chew on (something to do) can help - if you don't mind the chewing noise.

Be careful, though, Pongo has a bad habit of sucking anyhting he can get into the crate. It's amazing what'll fit though those tiny vent holes!!

[yukidomari]

Thanks! I'm wondering more about their acceptance and not so much the ability to learn what 'crate' means.

I've been following your posts on Luna and crate training, I don't think our neighbors would like 30 minutes of a CSV singing at 10PM every night! That's what I'm really worried about..

[GalomyOak]

All of mine are crate-trained. Anthea was a bit like Luna - Corgan trained fairly easy. Anthea is a very vocal dog - she barks more than any of my others, and gets VERY talkative at feeding time. Bongo, Ice and Roni were all super easy. Crate training with my dogs usually involves riding in the crate in the car quite a bit at the beginning...not ever giving them attention or letting them out when they make noise - only when they are quiet. They do figure out quickly that you will let them out if they are noisy - which can take a bit longer to turn around.

At night I crate my dogs away from me when they are puppies - I will usually crate another dog right next to them. I've found that the more they hear me bumping around at night, the more they will try to get my attention. I am fortunate to have a basement in my house for this. When we are at training, the GSDs and Malinois are usually much noisier than my guys.

[Enid Black]

Well, Yukidomari, you could teach to the puppy to stay in the crate during the day, at least at night he/she should not complain too much... besides "tossing a cookie" in it, I've heard of putting in there an old piece of cloth or a piece of tissue with your smell, so that the puppy does not feel abandoned ^^ (strangely enough, it is a technique I heard some people uses to teach to small children to sleep in their bed :P). Anyway the puppy should not see the crate as a punishment but as a quiet and safe place where to stay. You can start guiding te puppy inside and leaving the crate door open, and just when the puppy is quiet inside, trying to close it...

I just want to say that these are methods I read about because I have no Vlcak (yet!), but on Fennel's books and on some other forums they worked

I think yukidomari is asking more whether CsVs in general take to crating well, or if it's a difficult process for the breed as opposed to other dog breeds, not how to specifically crate train. From what I understand from Marcy's post, though, it sounds like it's more down to the individual dog whether it goes smoothly or not, as opposed to the breed itself being one way or the other.

[Mikael]

I did let the crate open in the house, whit a puppy bed inside.
No training needed, when he went in and fell to sleep I did close the door.

I had a BIG crate indoors "Dog Man, Grand Danois" it was like a living room for a puppy. I had a smaller one in the car, I started to just go to my father to let him off in the mornings when I went to work = 400meters.

There was newer no problem whit the crate, but he was very car sick as a puppy

Best regards / Mikael

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Ps, for Swedish owners and readers ( I had Hronec in a crate 2007 only at night as a puppy, and I know that from Jan 2008 it is not allowed in Sweden to have dogs sleeping in a crate.)

>>>http://www.sjv.se/presskontakten/pre...380004648.html

This is what it say translated to English if somebody that do not speek Swedish wants to know...

"Dogs and cats must not be kept in the cage except at certain specific times (at shows, trials and tests, training for competition, in connection with hunting and during transport)." Ds.

[soniakanavle]

I had no problems crate training Flint, in fact he took to it surprisingly easy! I just fed all his meals in his crate so he learned to like it right away. Sure there was some crying at night those first days when he was a tiny puppy but he grew out of that quickly and nowadays he loves his 'den' and will even go sleep in it when the door is open (though he does still prefer to sleep on my bed.)

And funny side note, I had never needed to crate my German Shepherd, but after she saw my CsV in there all the time she started going in it on her own and would growl at him if he came near haha. So I don't feel bad when I do have to crate Flint, but he's free in the yard/house most of the time anyways.

[rivals]

I recently heard about those laws in Sweden, and I think it's really interesting. Crating is such a common thing to do here in the US. I don't think we could go without it actually, since my husky has somewhat bad separation anxiety and my pit/border collie mix is a crazy little 15 month old who tries to get into everything.

[yukidomari]

The Swedish law is interesting! Thanks Mikael. Here it's commonly prescribed to house break puppies easily, for traveling, and for when you're at work and the puppy isn't safe to be alone in the house yet (chewing everything, etc).

Course it's generally not recommended to crate a dog longer than just a few hours at any 1 period, so if I have to crate to go to work, usually I stop by at lunch or hire a dog walker to come by. Course you can also take them to puppy day care.

Thanks for sharing all the experiences! I really appreciate it. It looks like it's more of an individual thing.. good! Hopefully we won't get a screamer. We had to apologize to the neighbors and leave notes on the door that it was not a baby in distress with one of our dogs when she was young. :/

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

We let our younger dogs sleep in a crate overnight till they are out of destroing age, what´s usually the case with around 1-2 years. When the crate is open in the dog´s room they like to sleep in it though they don´t have to, sometimes two of the older bitches sleep together in one crate, what´s looks quite crowded but they seem to love the den feeling. As we drive a lot over the day and take the dogs with us most of the time and the young ones in a crate in the car they normally are used to it quite soon and simply sleep till the next action takes part.
I got the impression over now 12 years that wolfdogs sleep quietly pretty soon in their crate when you signal them that there is no way of discussion. If they have the feeling they have possibility for making arrangements with their owner they will discuss everything with a very high endurance. This is a common rule with dogs but wolfdogs are extreme with this point.
Crate or other themes owners with a straight mind don´t have many problems.

Ina

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

I got the impression over now 12 years that wolfdogs sleep quietly pretty soon in their crate when you signal them that there is no way of discussion. If they have the feeling they have possibility for making arrangements with their owner they will discuss everything with a very high endurance. This is a common rule with dogs but wolfdogs are extreme with this point.
Crate or other themes owners with a straight mind don´t have many problems.

Ina

YES!!! Exactly!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

YES!!! Exactly!

what brings me back to the discussion if they are difficult or not. As I am a very straight but patient person (only with animals) that gets bored very easily, for me they are not, all in all I find them quite amusing and interesting from the ethological point of view.
For another type of person, especially for those that tend to change moods or minds very easily and that get excited very fast, they are very difficult, often too difficult.
I think this is the main reason for the very different experiences we hear about in this forum.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

.
I got the impression over now 12 years that wolfdogs sleep quietly pretty soon in their crate when you signal them that there is no way of discussion. If they have the feeling they have possibility for making arrangements with their owner they will discuss everything with a very high endurance. This is a common rule with dogs but wolfdogs are extreme with this point.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

what brings me back to the discussion if they are difficult or not. As I am a very straight but patient person (only with animals) that gets bored very easily, for me they are not, all in all I find them quite amusing and interesting from the ethological point of view. For another type of person, especially for those that tend to change moods or minds very easily and that get excited very fast, they are very difficult, often too difficult. I think this is the main reason for the very different experiences we hear about in this forum.

I am not a patient person at all , but I agree with all these comments !
My profession is to work with "problematic youth" and since years I see a lot of similarities in working and behavior with wolfdogs (I know it is very tricky for a professional to write these kind of things!)
But for me it is clear that simple rules as "Yes is yes ", "No is no" and now "No discussion is possible" are still working.

I also find these kind of things quite amusing and interesting from the ethological point of view in comparing human and dog world. (and of course I know there are also negative aspects around such points of view in human world! )

Maybe it is an idea to open a new subject about behavior . Then I can also explain more why it is a real great GIFT for me to raise a CsW dwarf pup.

[soniakanavle]

Originally Posted by draggar

Be careful, though, Pongo has a bad habit of sucking anyhting he can get into the crate. It's amazing what'll fit though those tiny vent holes!!

So true! Seems like anything within a 3 foot radius of Flints crate somehow ends up inside it, finely shredded of course.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by soniakanavle

So true! Seems like anything within a 3 foot radius of Flints crate somehow ends up inside it, finely shredded of course.

So true! When Lorka was a pup, she used to drag things to our bed and hide them neatly All sort of things, from her toys to other 'treasures'. Once I found under my pillow a box of unbroken (!) eggs , which was quite an achievement for the 'little devil'.

It's true what Ina and Mijke write about determination of the pack leaders when introducing home rules.
We've noticed incredible empathy in our both CSV pups. They were relatively patient when we went to work and they HAD TO stay on their own crated (or uncrated), but they used to 'cry' or mess around when we just went out socially!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Rona

So true! When Lorka was a pup, she used to drag things to our bed and hide them neatly All sort of things, from her toys to other 'treasures'. Once I found under my pillow a box of unbroken (!) eggs , which was quite an achievement for the 'little devil'.

It's true what Ina and Mijke write about determination of the pack leaders when introducing home rules.
We've noticed incredible empathy in our both CSV pups. They were relatively patient when we went to work and they HAD TO stay on their own crated (or uncrated), but they used to 'cry' or mess around when we just went out socially!

Our oldest female, now 12 years old, still hides everything that´s valuable to her in my bed. She never hides it in the bed of Michael, obviously she thinks he will eat it. When she was much younger she also did pack in her chewing bones into our travelling backs when we were packing and she did this very tidily, she would clap away the clothes, put her bone to the bottom and put the clothes back in place. We only realised she planned to travel with us when she got nervous if anybody got close to the luggage.
She also likes to join in when we go out for dinner - and she always knows, no matter what we do - and gets very annoyed when she isn´t allowed to, these were the only occasions when she emptied the dustbin all over the place.

Ina

[Rona]

Originally Posted by mijke

I
Maybe it is an idea to open a new subject about behavior . Then I can also explain more why it is a real great GIFT for me to raise a CsW dwarf pup.

Please do! I'm sure many people would be interested in your observations and reflections.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

I surely would.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

When she was much younger she also did pack in her chewing bones into our travelling backs when we were packing and she did this very tidily, she would clap away the clothes, put her bone to the bottom and put the clothes back in place. .

Funny, Tina did exactly the same! Leszek once travelled to Alaska with many stopovers and on collecting his luggage at the destination airport realized it smelled really badly...