Things to be added to the database...

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by leila

if i choose a breeder, who you "dont like" (sorry for the words), without reason, there are no his litters. and that is realy sh*tty. why? because it makes no sence to NOT display the litters. the litters are born, have pedigree,... so why do not show them? realy stupid.

I do not agree leila. I think it is fair. I worked on the database for YEARS - I spent my money and my time ( a lot of them). And I know the feeling to being abuse by so called "breeders". If the lazy breeder who is advertising litters on Wolfdog is collecting the money (in many cases they are making pure business - some of them even work - they maintain their families with the money raised with selling the pups) and such person do not even want to spend 20 MIN!!! to collect the puppy names and all data needed for the database - such people should NOT BE ADVERTISED here.
Why? If the breeders do not send the data who makes it - who collect the data? The clubs NEVER send any official data - at least I NEVER get any official information before even if the club(s) promised us to do so.

So it is the work of "usual" breeders/owners who collect the information. They make it for free - they send even the data of their ENEMIES (because they really love the breed). sorry but it would be not fair if such people would have to work much more then the lazy people who will collect PURE money for it.

The rule was always VERY clear and I know it didn't changed: if you send the data your kennel name and litters will be advertised. CLEAR and EASY. It is really so hard to send the FEW NAMES?

I know that last time there is additional rule because of the problems in the Hungarian, Italian, Finish and French kennel clubs. There are to many fake litters born and the kennel clubs have no control.
In this case I also think it must be finally solved on the official way and finally the origin clubs or the owners community should make any legal steps against the breeders/countries. Because it is getting worser and worser.

Originally Posted by Fede86

If one is stupid enough to buy a pup without doing the proper research about health, genealogy, temperament, reputability of the breeder and so on, well... he/she deserves what he/she gets (a mix, an unhealthy dog, a dog with bad temperament or whatever).

It is no so easy. Look on the example France - even EXPERIENCED breeders who breed there CsW for years already are writing here that the dogs which were mentioned here are purebreed even if it is for us OBVIOUS that the dogs are MIXES with FAKE pedigrees.
The cheaters are GREAT LIARS. They can play great responsible owners - some of them are even members of the boards/breeding committees of the CsW clubs. No - if even the "experienced" owners/breeders are being lied by them then lets say it openly: "beginners" have no chance to make good choice. Or even to buy a purebreed dog.
Although I hope that soon if will be solved by FCI - it is their obligation to guaranty that the FCI pedigree respond with the reality.


BTW: My idea is to change the description of the Italian dogs. Yes, it is true that Foresta Incantata and Passo del Lupo (and some kennels who use their dogs) breed Saarloos-CsW mixes and register them as pure CsW. But as far I know the ENCI have it under control - there is no danger that any of those kennels will make fake litters and sold those dogs with other pedigrees because it can bee easily solved on the legal way already in Italy.

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

It is no so easy. Look on the example France - even EXPERIENCED breeders who breed there CsW for years already are writing here that the dogs which were mentioned here are purebreed

"Experienced" does not mean "reputable", and I think any buyer, "beginner" or not, should keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

even if it is for us OBVIOUS that the dogs are MIXES with FAKE pedigrees.

But that's the point, the cases we can judge, since it seems it's not possible to thoroughly test all the involved animals for DNA, are the OBVIOUS ones, those that don't need proof, just as we wouldn't need any proof to say a Saint Bernard is not a Maremma Sheepdog... Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with marking these dogs.

But what about the others? I personally don't see the point in warning people telling them that this or that dog "may be mixes" because the breeder has an history of mixing or using mixes, intentionally or not, in their breeding program. We can underline the FACTS (look, this breeder produced some obvious mixes), but I believe we should leave the subsequent speculations to those who are looking for a pup to buy or for a stud dog for their bitch. We all have brains. Those who don't use theirs simply don't care and settle for the first affordable pup they find at a reasonable distance from home, but that's their problem. And then there are those who buy a pup just BECAUSE it is a mix, but they don't need any warining

The point is, right now half of the CSW population is marked some way or the other, it's bordering the ridiculous and you know the effect it has in my opinion? It makes people disregard every single one of those "warnings" (even the legitimate ones) because at this point they look just like the product of some sort of paranoia. It makes you feel like nothing on that database is reliable anymore, it's just someone guessing and putting strange "marks" almost at random. I'm not saying it's like that, but that is definitely the feeling it gives me right now, and that probably would give to the "beginner" that may need direction in finding a good pup. I'm just saying that if I had to look for a pup right now I would simply ignore those "warnings" and try to decide with my head and my knowledge which litters deserve to be taken into consideration.