Cesar about Wolf-Dog Hybrids

[AMERICANI]

All of mine (with aggression problems toward each other) are Csvs.. I do have one mutt male. They all grew up together as pups.. So you you are saying there is still a chance of them never getting along together? I do not have any 3 Csvs that can be together right now, and I am very eager to try something.. I'm just waiting for something that makes sense lol..

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

All of mine (with aggression problems toward each other) are Csvs.. I do have one mutt male. They all grew up together as pups.. So you you are saying there is still a chance of them never getting along together? I do not have any 3 Csvs that can be together right now, and I am very eager to try something.. I'm just waiting for something that makes sense lol..

I think you should always have the ultimate goal of having all your dogs living together peacefully, but the key is to understand it may not be possible, so you don't put unnecessary pressure on yourself and your dogs. Effective (i.e. Long lasting) training is a slow process and while at times results can be quick, training against instinct takes time. For example, it's in my husky's nature to chase anything small, furry, and quick, but we taught him the cat is off limits. The only way I felt comfortable bringing a cat into the house, though, is after 3 years of training to establish a "no chasing" command.

The problem with using the "quick fix" of dominance training is that, like it's been said, you're only treating the symptom, not the cause. What ends up happening is you "break" the dog. Sure, she'll behave, but her personality will be changed. She will lose the confidence to make decisions for fear of correction, and that's no way for a dog to live. You want to slowly desensitize to the stimulus in a way that keeps them from escalating in the first place, so they learn to be more calm on their own, because it's rewarding.

Honestly, you can read, read, read about methods that can help, but if you're confused at all about how to proceed, the best thing would be to find a positive personal trainer who is accustomed to sensitive, willful breeds. If you go to Victoria Stillwell's website, positively.com, she's started a group of trainers all specializing in positive reinforcement training. It might be a good place to start looking.

[saschia]

Just my two cents - maybe going all passive (waiting for them to calm) may be fastened a bit by active desensitization - like redirecting attention and otherwise showing the dog what is the right thing to do. But, of course, still slowly, still starting from the safe distance, and I think what complicates it is that you actually need another person to direct the other dog, as you don't want one going crazy while the other is desensitized.

But positive reinforcement is the best in this case for sure, the dog shouldn't be punished because it is put in the proximity of something it does not like. I only punish my dog if she actively goes and attacks another female even though she was told not to, and that punishment is physically taking her out of the conflict, and then giving her commands she has to obey and are completely boring and she has to do them properly and look at me, not the other dog, until she does it in the way that deserves praising and then I praise her and she can go run again. If she ignores the other bitch, or redirects her attention to me when called, I praise her. And I must say it helps, although slowly (I prefer to walk in places where there are no other females, so I don't train it often enough).

[hanninadina]

Americani, how old are your csv and which sex are they? Neutered?

To be save, means keeping only a male and female of csv. Sometimes mother and daugther works. But all other combination do not work when they did mature. I am talking about the regular average case. having two males will work if there is no female. Even a neutered female and intact female will not work. That is the normal case. CSV are to dominant and to aggressiv.

So you do not have to try to train them, but you have to seperate them and built two packs and a save fence between them, a double fence.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

[AMERICANI]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Americani, how old are your csv and which sex are they? Neutered?

To be save, means keeping only a male and female of csv. Sometimes mother and daugther works. But all other combination do not work when they did mature. I am talking about the regular average case. having two males will work if there is no female. Even a neutered female and intact female will not work. That is the normal case. CSV are to dominant and to aggressiv.

So you do not have to try to train them, but you have to seperate them and built two packs and a save fence between them, a double fence.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

All of mine are in tact.. I have 3 females 1 - 4yrs, 2 - almost 3.. 2 males, 1 - 3 1/2 and 1 - 2 yrs

I don't want to lose hope.... All of these pics I see on Wolfdog of 5 or 6 all playing together... is it a temperament issue?
Thank you.. I have them separated in different pens.. I just want to enjoy the lake and hiking and do things together. I hate bringing 2 and leaving the rest at home

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

All of these pics I see on Wolfdog of 5 or 6 all playing together... is it a temperament issue?

It may or may not be; and it matters if the dogs pictured are actually all related and grew up together with their mother and fathers, aunts and uncles, etc. It also matters the ages of the dogs.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

I don't want to lose hope.... All of these pics I see on Wolfdog of 5 or 6 all playing together... is it a temperament issue?

Usually it is the age issue. But it is also possible to see a pack of unrelated animals of different ages and sexes and temeraments having some good time together - usually when their owners meet regularly and the dogs know they may not fight. And the photos of course are taken of supervised dogs. We had been for walks in groups of several adult dominant males and two adult dominant bitches (and one submissive one) all going off-leash at hikes and it did work.

I am convinced that with good training you will be able to have all your pack with you for walks - and it may not take so long, but it is best if you start as soon as possible and create the hierarchy of the pack yourself - like the young dog needs to know YOU do not tolerate when it tries to be too cheeky with the older one. And the older one needs to know that YOU do not tolerate if it fights in your presence. But of course they need to be desenzitized first, so that they can realize that YOU are there to solve the possible conflicts. I think this is the case similar as Mech said - a pack artificially created of unrelated animals.

[AMERICANI]

Thanks both of you.. Saschia, you are saying exactly what I described earlier