Cesar about Wolf-Dog Hybrids

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

is this similar to wht you are describing? : lets say, I have my female "X" 15' away from female "Y" (the two fight any closer!), I could sit and ignore any tension between the two until one gives and looks away and then so does the other (the situation is calm - for the moment - decreasing distance according to time and progress..) Right then, I could provide a reward to the state of mind (calm and peaceful).. and this could very well continue for months! I believe I would need assistance from someone with the same knowledge to help with the other female simultaneously, right?

That's the basic concept. I'm no dog trainer but I would probably start from a distance that cause no tension at all, reducing it at a pace that never allows it to reach levels that cause the dogs to express the unwanted behavior (when eliminating a bad behavior you want to reduce its frequency to a minimum, so you avoid to put the dog in a position where that behavior surfaces). I guess the specifics of the method may vary depending on the dog and on the situation.

[Jennin Lauma]

Good posts Fede86 & yukidomari
You two took the words out of my mouth (I completely agree with you, and would have given the exact same answers).

When dealing with wolfdogs, unsocial behaviour (towards other canines and especially of same sex) is quite typical, and absolutely natural behaviour for a wolf.
Wolves are often concidered being pack animals, and therefore incorrectly interpret to be social animals. But the truth is that wolves live in family units, and usually the pack consists of a mother and a father and their offspring from the last couple springs untill they mature and leave the pack to find their own territory & mate.
Of course there will always be exceptions to rules and so it is in this case too; there are some reported cases of more complex wolf pack structures than described above, but those are just that; exceptions and usually occur only under special circumstances.

[AMERICANI]

All of mine (with aggression problems toward each other) are Csvs.. I do have one mutt male. They all grew up together as pups.. So you you are saying there is still a chance of them never getting along together? I do not have any 3 Csvs that can be together right now, and I am very eager to try something.. I'm just waiting for something that makes sense lol..

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

All of mine (with aggression problems toward each other) are Csvs.. I do have one mutt male. They all grew up together as pups.. So you you are saying there is still a chance of them never getting along together? I do not have any 3 Csvs that can be together right now, and I am very eager to try something.. I'm just waiting for something that makes sense lol..

I think you should always have the ultimate goal of having all your dogs living together peacefully, but the key is to understand it may not be possible, so you don't put unnecessary pressure on yourself and your dogs. Effective (i.e. Long lasting) training is a slow process and while at times results can be quick, training against instinct takes time. For example, it's in my husky's nature to chase anything small, furry, and quick, but we taught him the cat is off limits. The only way I felt comfortable bringing a cat into the house, though, is after 3 years of training to establish a "no chasing" command.

The problem with using the "quick fix" of dominance training is that, like it's been said, you're only treating the symptom, not the cause. What ends up happening is you "break" the dog. Sure, she'll behave, but her personality will be changed. She will lose the confidence to make decisions for fear of correction, and that's no way for a dog to live. You want to slowly desensitize to the stimulus in a way that keeps them from escalating in the first place, so they learn to be more calm on their own, because it's rewarding.

Honestly, you can read, read, read about methods that can help, but if you're confused at all about how to proceed, the best thing would be to find a positive personal trainer who is accustomed to sensitive, willful breeds. If you go to Victoria Stillwell's website, positively.com, she's started a group of trainers all specializing in positive reinforcement training. It might be a good place to start looking.

[saschia]

Just my two cents - maybe going all passive (waiting for them to calm) may be fastened a bit by active desensitization - like redirecting attention and otherwise showing the dog what is the right thing to do. But, of course, still slowly, still starting from the safe distance, and I think what complicates it is that you actually need another person to direct the other dog, as you don't want one going crazy while the other is desensitized.

But positive reinforcement is the best in this case for sure, the dog shouldn't be punished because it is put in the proximity of something it does not like. I only punish my dog if she actively goes and attacks another female even though she was told not to, and that punishment is physically taking her out of the conflict, and then giving her commands she has to obey and are completely boring and she has to do them properly and look at me, not the other dog, until she does it in the way that deserves praising and then I praise her and she can go run again. If she ignores the other bitch, or redirects her attention to me when called, I praise her. And I must say it helps, although slowly (I prefer to walk in places where there are no other females, so I don't train it often enough).

[hanninadina]

Americani, how old are your csv and which sex are they? Neutered?

To be save, means keeping only a male and female of csv. Sometimes mother and daugther works. But all other combination do not work when they did mature. I am talking about the regular average case. having two males will work if there is no female. Even a neutered female and intact female will not work. That is the normal case. CSV are to dominant and to aggressiv.

So you do not have to try to train them, but you have to seperate them and built two packs and a save fence between them, a double fence.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

[AMERICANI]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Americani, how old are your csv and which sex are they? Neutered?

To be save, means keeping only a male and female of csv. Sometimes mother and daugther works. But all other combination do not work when they did mature. I am talking about the regular average case. having two males will work if there is no female. Even a neutered female and intact female will not work. That is the normal case. CSV are to dominant and to aggressiv.

So you do not have to try to train them, but you have to seperate them and built two packs and a save fence between them, a double fence.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

All of mine are in tact.. I have 3 females 1 - 4yrs, 2 - almost 3.. 2 males, 1 - 3 1/2 and 1 - 2 yrs

I don't want to lose hope.... All of these pics I see on Wolfdog of 5 or 6 all playing together... is it a temperament issue?
Thank you.. I have them separated in different pens.. I just want to enjoy the lake and hiking and do things together. I hate bringing 2 and leaving the rest at home

[AMERICANI]

Thanks both of you.. Saschia, you are saying exactly what I described earlier