Cesar about Wolf-Dog Hybrids

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

I completely agree with Fede86.

Oh, my... I'm so tired of these statements like "the animal is confused, it does not know whether it is a dog or a wolf"... yadiyadiyadiyaa...
That does not make any sence at all! -If I breed a Dogo Argentino to a Lab, will the puppies have split personalities and be confuced because they do not know whether they should act like a fierce fighter or a seeing eye quide...? My gosh... think about it.

And the thing Jennifer does to this very low content wolfdog (mostly Husky/Malamute) when it starts chasing her and grabs her leg, would be down right dangerous with a wolf or high content wolfdog.
Just ask anyone (other than Shaun Ellis) who is REALLY experienced with wolves & high content wolfdogs, they would never recommend you to try acting like a wolf and dominate the animal by staring and growling to it's face. -You might just end up loosing your face...
All the real experts on wolves & wolfdogs tell you to act human and train the animal with the same methods we know today are the most effective ways to train a dog, -or just about any animal; the positive reinforcement. All those domination theories and punishment - based training methods are old days dog training, and today scientifically proven wrong and ineffective, often causing even more troubles.

And of course, to better understand a (real) wolfy wolfdog, one should learn to understand the differences in wolf behaviour and doggy-dog behaviour. Basically all the same behaviours we see in wolves, are found in dogs too. Only the wolf behaviour is generally many times more intense. -And that is what causes probles for people who don't understand, and do not know how to handle and train an animal. -And I'm not only talking about lack of knowledge about training a wolf or a wolfdog, but any animal in general.
Also it is important to know and understand the differences in hormone activity in wolves and dogs, and especially what that often means with mature wolves / wolfy-wolfdogs between the seasons. Wolves are fertile only once a year and during that time their hormones kick in, causing some changes in behaviour.

One part that was corrct in the film was that when Jennifer said noted that the wolf is a highly territorial animal. And so it is not a "collect them all" -kind of an animal for people who want their animals to be social. But the world is full of doggy-dogs that are known to be unsocial too. And though I do not own a CsV myself, I have understood that this is typical for those too, isn't it?

And BTW; to all Cesar fans here, this is how he trains a fearfull wolfdog:

^You call this today's dog training? Here in our country, strangling an animal is concidered illegal, and with "training" methods like this, you would soon end up in trouble with the authorities.
Also I've seen Cesar kicking the dogs, and for example using an electric collar on a black GSD to accustom it to the family's cat. -I wonder how the dog should learn to concider the cat as a friend / family member, when teached that every time the cat enters the room and the dog sees the cat, it get's painfull shocks...?

good post!! completely agree .....and as for c.m!!

[AMERICANI]

That dog wanted to open him up. What method would you have used? Every time I have been in a fight and choked someone out or had been choked out, my eyes, face, and skin turn red, and my tongue turns bluish, but I have never been injured from it, so I know there is a possibility (he does care for the well being of the animal even if it looked really bad (which I'm not arguing - it did) I am not wanting to appear hostile! I do not condone any form of abuse! I just think, perhaps, that was the only way to get that dog out of that state of dominance. I just can't see another way to get this animal out of that state. The last thing you would want would be for him to turn on a person (especially the handler) then he gets put down and the wolfdog community gets another bad mark. The moment the dog chilled out, Ceasar let off... Honestly, if there is a better way, please post a link. I'm just happy none of my dogs have ever been in that mindset. These aren't little dogs. As for E-Collars, I have put one on my own neck and used it (I use everything on myself first before using it on my dogs)..... it isnt harmful (seeing stars for a couple of seconds isn't harmful, just annoying) and I wouldn't call it pain, just very startling and attention grabbing!.. (with this said, MANY people misuse MANY types of training equipment.. and without proper training or education, many people don't need to use certain tools.. I returned the E-Collar because it didn't always make contact through heavy fur, and I was afraid I would put it on too tight... Perfect example - I wasn't properly trained to use the thing, and I didn't need it.. As far as kicking, Cesar has made it clear that he hasn't kicked the dog hard, he only used his foot as a distraction (Please tell me if I have missed a particular episode!).. I just wanted to leave my 2 cents... Again, not being hostile..

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

That dog wanted to open him up. What method would you have used? Every time I have been in a fight and choked someone out or had been choked out, my eyes, face, and skin turn red, and my tongue turns bluish, but I have never been injured from it, so I know there is a possibility (he does care for the well being of the animal even if it looked really bad (which I'm not arguing - it did) I am not wanting to appear hostile! I do not condone any form of abuse! I just think, perhaps, that was the only way to get that dog out of that state of dominance. I just can't see another way to get this animal out of that state. The last thing you would want would be for him to turn on a person (especially the handler) then he gets put down and the wolfdog community gets another bad mark. The moment the dog chilled out, Ceasar let off... Honestly, if there is a better way, please post a link. I'm just happy none of my dogs have ever been in that mindset. These aren't little dogs. As for E-Collars, I have put one on my own neck and used it (I use everything on myself first before using it on my dogs)..... it isnt harmful (seeing stars for a couple of seconds isn't harmful, just annoying) and I wouldn't call it pain, just very startling and attention grabbing!.. (with this said, MANY people misuse MANY types of training equipment.. and without proper training or education, many people don't need to use certain tools.. I returned the E-Collar because it didn't always make contact through heavy fur, and I was afraid I would put it on too tight... Perfect example - I wasn't properly trained to use the thing, and I didn't need it.. As far as kicking, Cesar has made it clear that he hasn't kicked the dog hard, he only used his foot as a distraction (Please tell me if I have missed a particular episode!).. I just wanted to leave my 2 cents... Again, not being hostile..

The dog only wanted to open him up because he threw it into a situation it was not equip to deal with.

He deliberately placed it in close proximity to a dog it cannot cope with seeing (the owners told him this) waited for it to get wound up, I am not sure if he deliberately ignored the signals the dog was giving off or he was not expecting the dog to react to his 'interference' the way it did.

the dog gives several signals before it reacts - he waits for it to be right on the edge and then he pushes it over by 'nudging'. What you are seeing is redirected aggression. The dog is SO hyped due to what he has done it.

This is a great clip on how to ignore dogs body language and what can happen when you do.

I feel so sorry for the dog.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Tassle

The dog only wanted to open him up because he threw it into a situation it was not equip to deal with.

He deliberately placed it in close proximity to a dog it cannot cope with seeing (the owners told him this) waited for it to get wound up, I am not sure if he deliberately ignored the signals the dog was giving off or he was not expecting the dog to react to his 'interference' the way it did.

the dog gives several signals before it reacts - he waits for it to be right on the edge and then he pushes it over by 'nudging'. What you are seeing is redirected aggression. The dog is SO hyped due to what he has done it.

This is a great clip on how to ignore dogs body language and what can happen when you do.

I feel so sorry for the dog.

That's exactly what I thought when I first saw this clip - he deliberately winds the poor dog up so that he can exact his punishment (sorry, 'correction') I didn't have a lot of time for his 'quick fix' methods before, but now am actually starting to detest the man for what he does

[AMERICANI]

I guess I wrote so much before that my question became garbled in everything else... My actual question was, with an owner that doesn't know what to do with a dog of this capability, what other method is there? I understand if a dog belonged to an experienced trainer, there would be time to use other methods (they shouldn't have reach that state in the first place if that was the case). When someone desperate for help called Cesar, he does what is efficient and quick... Given the circumstances, I am having a hard time understanding the hostility towards him and his methods if that is what the case calls for.. He says he "Rehabilitates dogs and trains humans".. Of course there are more subtle ways to deal with issues.. I see it as an equal to some psychotherapy, where someone is driven to the breaking point to get out / over a fear, or traumatic experience..

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

I guess I wrote so much before that my question became garbled in everything else... My actual question was, with an owner that doesn't know what to do with a dog of this capability, what other method is there? I understand if a dog belonged to an experienced trainer, there would be time to use other methods (they shouldn't have reach that state in the first place if that was the case). When someone desperate for help called Cesar, he does what is efficient and quick... Given the circumstances, I am having a hard time understanding the hostility towards him and his methods if that is what the case calls for.. He says he "Rehabilitates dogs and trains humans".. Of course there are more subtle ways to deal with issues.. I see it as an equal to some psychotherapy, where someone is driven to the breaking point to get out / over a fear, or traumatic experience..

I do not think the dog needed what he did - it was very sensationalist and made 'good' tv, which I guess is why he did it. But this was not rehabbing, it was making the dog more afraid of him, than of the presence of the other dog.

[AMERICANI]

I understand