Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[Priska182]

I would like to understand... Why some dogs named "!!!MIX!!!" are put as mix in the database?
Did DNA test have been done for them? And if it’s the case why often the 2 parents shown in there pedigree are real CsV?

Like for example: Ckynaï de la Louve Blanche (!!!_MIX_!!!) who is: 2 x Best Puppy, 4 x BOB, 1 x Best Junior, 2 x CACIB, 4 x CACS, 1 x res. CAC, 3 x res. CACIB, 3 x CAC, 1 x res. CACS, Ch.LUX

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Priska182

I would like to understand... Why some dogs named "!!!MIX!!!" are put as mix in the database?
Did DNA test have been done for them? And if it’s the case why often the 2 parents shown in there pedigree are real CsV?

Like for example: Ckynaï de la Louve Blanche (!!!_MIX_!!!) who is: 2 x Best Puppy, 4 x BOB, 1 x Best Junior, 2 x CACIB, 4 x CACS, 1 x res. CAC, 3 x res. CACIB, 3 x CAC, 1 x res. CACS, Ch.LUX

I believe the pedigree is posted as it exists under FCI papers, no matter what, if DNA tests prove otherwise..

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Priska182

I would like to understand... Why some dogs named "!!!MIX!!!" are put as mix in the database?
Did DNA test have been done for them? And if it’s the case why often the 2 parents shown in there pedigree are real CsV?

Like for example: Ckynaï de la Louve Blanche (!!!_MIX_!!!) who is: 2 x Best Puppy, 4 x BOB, 1 x Best Junior, 2 x CACIB, 4 x CACS, 1 x res. CAC, 3 x res. CACIB, 3 x CAC, 1 x res. CACS, Ch.LUX

The father of Ckinay, CPouchka and maybe some other dogs from this litter is American Wolfdog Uncas. It was written somewhere here. But the database base on the FCI pedigree information. If the pedigrees will be canceled/fixed it will be done also here.

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by Margo

The father of Ckinay, CPouchka and maybe some other dogs from this litter is American Wolfdog Uncas. It was written somewhere here. But the database base on the FCI pedigree information. If the pedigrees will be canceled/fixed it will be done also here.

Thank you Margo,

But, I'm still wondering... Did DNA test have been done to prove that the father is not Crying wolf Merlin? Or did the breeder admit that the real father of this litter is an American Wolfdog?

I'm lost and also feel very concerned by all this matter...

There are around 300 dogs with Galiba blood and something like 200 with Flash blood... Are they all suspects? WOW... It’s really not a good thing for our breed... And it’s only based on suppositions...
The CsV is a quite new breed I’m not so sure that it’s good thing to reduce is number of specimen only base on suppositions... I know, I'm not going to make me friends with this kind of words but it’s seens true for me. The best we can do for now, if we cannot have test from Galiba, Flash and others, is probably to oblige breeders to make DNA test on all there new litters to be accept as “Pure Breed CsV”...

[saschia]

Priska, but the saarloos inmixing can bring very unwanted characteristics into the breed - like the red color, the untypical mask, the untypical ears. All these things are faults that should remove the animal from breeding. OK, we know about the genetics of the red color, so we are able to take it away in few generations, if we really want, although it also meand great reduction of population. But what about the other traits which we have no idea about? How can we get rid of them if we allow spreading of mixes in our population? Not speakin about the character, saarloos are nice dogs, but not working breed, if some people claim that even now the CSW are losing their working abilities what will happen if we use mixes in the population? It will change the breed completely.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by saschia

It will change the breed completely.

and it might give other perhaps not-great breeders some excuse to do some 'experiments', as long as they can keep it hidden for long enough. to me there isn't a statute of limitations on what will be registered as purebred - the dog either is, or isn't, and the only exception is when an official body approves otherwise.

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by saschia

Priska, but the saarloos inmixing can bring very unwanted characteristics into the breed - like the red color, the untypical mask, the untypical ears. All these things are faults that should remove the animal from breeding. OK, we know about the genetics of the red color, so we are able to take it away in few generations, if we really want, although it also meand great reduction of population. But what about the other traits which we have no idea about? How can we get rid of them if we allow spreading of mixes in our population? Not speakin about the character, saarloos are nice dogs, but not working breed, if some people claim that even now the CSW are losing their working abilities what will happen if we use mixes in the population? It will change the breed completely.

I totally agree with you Saschia, but we're pointing with the finger on a lot of dogs without real proof...

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Priska182

I totally agree with you Saschia, but we're pointing with the finger on a lot of dogs without real proof...

I am totally sure, that it is much better not to breed suspicious dogs TEMPORARY, than to deal with even bigger number of offsprings later, if the suspicions are really truth...

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

I am totally sure, that it is much better not to breed suspicious dogs TEMPORARY, than to deal with even bigger number of offsprings later, if the suspicions are really truth...

Yes and I think all breeders think like this to ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Priska182

But, I'm still wondering... Did DNA test have been done to prove that the father is not Crying wolf Merlin? Or did the breeder admit that the real father of this litter is an American Wolfdog?

Originally Posted by Priska182

I totally agree with you Saschia, but we're pointing with the finger on a lot of dogs without real proof...

No, no.... It was written somewhere here - these are the words of the owner of Uncas who told that the French breeder came and covered his CsW female with Unkas.
He is very proud that puppies of Unkas (here it was about C'Pouchka and C'Kinay) win so much at shows.....

What can be more done in an OFFICIAL DNA test which will show the truth. But so far there are no news from France IF and WHEN it will be done.
Something must be done it such case because such behavior is breaking of the FCI rules which all countries must follow...

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by Margo

No, no.... It was written somewhere here - these are the words of the owner of Uncas who told that the French breeder came and covered his CsW female with Unkas.
He is very proud that puppies of Unkas (here it was about C'Pouchka and C'Kinay) win so much at shows.....

What can be more done in an OFFICIAL DNA test which will show the truth. But so far there are no news from France IF and WHEN it will be done.
Something must be done it such case because such behavior is breaking of the FCI rules which all countries must follow...

Thanks Margo, so if now a dog is tag as a Mix, it's because there is real proof about it...
I really hope everything will find an end soon :s

[Priska182]

Sorry, I have probably forgotten something... Why are we always speaking about Galiba despite the fact that Mona z Krotkovského dvora CS is the common ancestor between Thalia and Sibir

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Priska182

Sorry, I have probably forgotten something... Why are we always speaking about Galiba despite the fact that Mona z Krotkovského dvora CS is the common ancestor between Thalia and Sibir

Not only Mona z Krotkovskeho dvora, but also Fallko Kollarov dvor. The problem is that when those two dogs were born, there were no (= 0) saarloos wolfdogs in Slovakia. Those two cannot be mixes of SW therefore (and also other reasons, but I wrote about them in different forum).

[jefta]

"German longhair" is shepherd or pointer? German longhair pointer have bb gene for sure. As I understand this is artickel about pointer (gsd longhair was not consider as a single breed until 1909)

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by jefta

"German longhair" is shepherd or pointer? German longhair pointer have bb gene for sure. As I understand this is artickel about pointer (gsd longhair was not consider as a single breed until 1909)

that was confusing me... i thought the article was about pointers